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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.

Re: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit ofmcahistory

From: Mike Cole <lchcmike who-is-at gmail.com>
Date: Fri Jun 29 2007 - 13:53:42 PDT

Very interesting video, Naeem. By chance (?) I was speaking to Jan
Derry's
conference on "technology enhanced learning" just before seeing this. Very
relevant. But daunting in the extreme.
See you when you return.
mike

On 6/28/07, Naeem Hashmi <nhashmi@infoframeworks.com> wrote:
>
> Louise,
>
> Interesting observations... Today, I see no one to be an expert in
> anything.. Each discipline is so huge that we always feel (at least I do),
> that as soon as we learn something becomes almost obsolete before the
> day
> ends. I recall when I was growing up in Pakistan. In our town, and still
> in
> some villages today, a barber is also a surgeon, can perform circumcision,
> can shave you while you still chewing some thing, and then can shave your
> armpits as well (if you desire) and when time comes for wedding, same
> barber
> becomes chef and come to prepare feast for the huge wedding parties....The
> Barber had expertise in many disciplines with the circle of a community.
> The problem here is that they have narrow-expertise in few areas and have
> no
> opportunity to grow beyond due to lack of cross- community
> information/communication exchanges. And a slightly different
> example. In
> a village in India, a father took his newly born son to an expert
> astrologist and asked for his sons' future... The astrologer, after
> thinking
> deeply opened his eyes and said... he sees a good future for him... Your
> son
> will be respected person and always surrounded with all sort of
> vehicles...
> Father was very happy, since he never had imagined to be around a car
> other
> than a bull cart in his village... So father anxiously waited till his son
> grew up and went to another city to work. Later, proud father went to
> visit
> his son and to see how his son at work... father was surprised... yes.
> there
> were hundreds of cars around his son the entire day not because his son
> was
> rich rather son turned out to be a traffic controller -- the police
> fellow
> who directs the Indian traffic where every things goes on the same road
> but
> in all directions... So sometimes the way 'experts' envision things, there
> is some truth to that vision, but not exact how it is perceived by others.
> Same goes in today's world. The only difference is that now we cal all
> team-up (virtually - like this), collaborate and learn from our limited
> knowledge (expertise) to bring new composite-knowledge which as no
> boundaries and source for innovations.
>
> Also I see kids with playstations like tools are quick learners, and adopt
> to new situations quickly with good motor coordination and quick reactions
> when faced with unknown situations. And many pilots are also trained in
> playstation like simulators before they set foot in the cockpits.
>
> We need to encourage and enforce our young's to bring their own strengths
> and collectively learn and share their experience/knowledge among extended
> communities as compared to making them 'experts' in one or another thing.
> And 'epics' like thing or 'Do you know' (
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65wE6yFYgP8 ) at the YouTube are worth
> showing to our Teachers and Young to prepare them with new realities.
>
> Regards,
> Naeem
>
> ---
> Naeem Hashmi
> Chief Research Officer
> Information Frameworks
> T: 603-552-5171 M: 603-661-6820
> W: http://infoframeworks.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Louise Hawkins" <l.hawkins@cqu.edu.au>
> To: <mcole@weber.ucsd.edu>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 7:45 PM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit
> ofmcahistory
>
>
> Mike,
>
> The discussion is really pointing out that an expert and a novice are both
> context dependant. Depends on the context, who is involved as to whom is
> the
> expert/novice, if these labels are even useful.
>
> I watched the movie 'Snakes on a plane' - Samuel L Jackson the other day.
> At
> one point they need to find someone who can fly the plane - one of the
> passengers states that he has a certain number of hours.... Only after a
> few
> minutes in the pilots seat does he state that his experience is 2000 hours
> on a playstation!!!!!
>
> Thank goodness for properly qualified, experienced pilots out there :)
>
> Louise
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Cole [mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 29 June 2007 12:31 AM
> To: Wolff-Michael Roth
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Don C about the "epic" googlization film - a bit of
> mcahistory
>
> Steve-- I believe the Googlezon film is a useful tool for thinking about
> the
> issue of changes in agency and ontology associated with massive parallel
> computing systems that are the media for our knowledge of thought and the
> world. It also overlaps the theme of data mining for inter-cultural
> business
> advertising and decision making Naeem introduced. Sure, there is a lot of
> hype, which includes the hype over how flat the world is, but Friedman is
> pointing at a real phenomenon, or part of one.
>
> Michael. I am all for organizing activity that leads to expansive
> learning.
> But, again, going to the opposite
> extreme and saying that deep knowledge and skill in a domain is simply a
> mode of hierarchy/power creation is, in my view, not helpful. Two really
> friendly and cooperative peers who have no experience gardening (to pick a
> domain where I readily concede my dufferhood, yet try to contribute as
> best
> I can, while not hesitating to stop in at my garden store to figure out
> why
> and how I killed two fig trees in two years) might starve because they
> cannot expand quickly enough. By the same token. western experts who went
> into Liberia to "teach the farmers" how to grow rice more efficiently
> were,
> for the reasons that bother Michael and Louise. responsible for widespread
> misery, starvation, displacement of people from the land, etc. I am not
> valorizing expertise unconditionally. I do value highly taking advantage
> of
> the enormous heterogeneity of knowledge in a very heterogeneous and
> uncertain world. I still do not want my grand daughter piloting the next
> plane I ride in, even if her best friend is co pilot.
> mike
>
> Mi
>
> On 6/28/07, Wolff-Michael Roth <mroth@uvic.ca> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> > perhaps we have to rethink the "more knowledgeable partner" and think
> > zpd as Yrjö suggested as a change in the activity system that leads to
> > expansive learning, and this may happen also in the case were equally
> > knowledgeable partners get together, or if a new tool is introduced,
> > different forms of division of labor are evolved, etc.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On 27-Jun-07, at 7:41 PM, Mike Cole wrote:
> >
> > No one picked up on this and I should probably just drop it but the
> >
> > continued discussion on ZOPED prompts me to ask, could a computer
> >
> > algorithm be a "more knowledgeable" partner? Adaptive testing is
> > another
> >
> > example of an artificial intelligence that tries to move people into a
> >
> > zone of maximum response. If the vision in EPIC 2015 were actualized,
> >
> > might not the algorithm be a sensei, showing us the way forward? I
> >
> > understand that the notion of _forward_ is problematic, but is that
> > not
> >
> > also true of a human sensei......or any teacher? And why should the
> > goal
> >
> > in a zoped be the ability to act independently? Most of the things in
> > my
> >
> > life that have expanded my capabilities are things I have come to rely
> >
> > on and are now a part of me. I can't imagine how I ever wrote anything
> >
> > of value when I wrote in long hand, had a poor (now nearly blind
> > thanks
> >
> > to me) secretary type it up, correct, edit, repeat, and so forth. Here
> > I
> >
> > link with Donna's contribution where she mentions natural born cyborgs.
> >
> > Can anyone doubt that within my lifetime (and I'm OLD) that things
> > like
> >
> > MP3's and cell phones will be available as surgical implants?
> >
> >
> >
> > Mind you, this all scares the beejeezes out of me..........djc
> > _______________________________________________
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> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
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Received on Fri Jun 29 13:55 PDT 2007

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