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Hi Andy, Here's what one online dictionary (www.eudict.com) offers, which seems rather different from what you've proposed: Darstelung = embodiment, representation, picture, presentment, image, phantom, portrayal, statement Vorstellung =association, conceivability, imagination, conception, idea, notion, perception, performance, show Martin On Jan 25, 2011, at 1:20 AM, Andy Blunden wrote: > I don't know if this is of any use, Martin. I have no idea about the Russian of course! But this is what I know of the translation of the German terms into English, which doesn't quite tally with your information. > > /Vostellung /is usually translated as 'representation'. /Vorstellen > /is literally 'to put in front of', introduce a person to someone or > represent them (on their behalf). Also to represent in art. /Sich > vorstellen/ is to represent something to oneself, i.e., imagine, > conceive, picture to oneself, and thus to produce a /Vorstellung/. > This emphasises the subjective state of the subject rather than the > nature of the object being represented. > > In philosophy, /Vorstellung /means 'idea' in the very broad sense /a > la /Locke, as thoughts, intuitions, sensations, perceptions, and as > "representation" in translating Kant. Or in a narrower sense, > /Vorstellung /is contrasted with perception or sensuous intuition, > as /Vorstellung /does /not /imply that the object and person are in > each other's presence. /Vorstellung /is also to be contrasted with > /Idee/, because it /does /have a pictorial element to it,. > > /Darstellen /also means to represent or exhibit, but usually in less detail or more generally stand for. You can use it in the sense of value "represents" (/darstellen/) labour, or all commodities "represent" (/darstellen/) social labour, or how neuronal activity can "represent" (/darstellen/) a thought. It seems to me that the concept of "representation" is not all pictorial here, but more like "evidence of" or "stands for". > > This page: http://www.marxists.org/archive/rubin/value/ch12.htm discusses the translation of the Russian */predstavlyat'/* as "represent" > > What's the reference in Vygotsky, Martin? > > Andy > > Martin Packer wrote: >> Dear XMCAers, >> >> Are there equivalents in Russian to the Vorstellung/Darstellung distinction in German? The first is generally translated into English as "idea," while the second as "representation." The follow-up question (for double points) would be, how does LSV use these (Russian) terms? >> >> Martin >> >> __________________________________________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> >> > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Joint Editor MCA: http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Journal/ > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857 > MIA: http://www.marxists.org > > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca