Re: [xmca] RE: Lexia

[Peg Griffin <peg.griffin@att.net>]

Isn't it that the "merely undersood"  embodied in those undergrads is co-habiting with the really effective -- like Luria's two systems so tightly connected that they interrupt each other?  That's what happens in the ANL homework example, right? The "merely" drops off; the understood becomes effective as the formerly "really effective" motive is contradicted.  

--- On Wed, 1/25/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:


From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [xmca] RE: Lexia
To: "Peg Griffin" <peg.griffin@att.net>
Cc: "Culture ActivityeXtended Mind" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 5:11 PM


Yes, the ANL distinction here seems very relevant. What surprises me is
that "really effective
motives" do not channel attention/action in a way that leads into an
epigenetic dead end.
mike

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:45 PM, Peg Griffin <peg.griffin@att.net> wrote:

> remember about "really effective" motives getting kids in the activity
> space since the "merely understood motives" were no where near developed
> enough to have the power needed to get them there/keep them there?
> Peg
> --- On *Wed, 1/25/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] RE: Lexia
> To: "White, Phillip" <Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Wednesday, January 25, 2012, 11:16 AM
>
> I am glad that you looked at Learning Upgrade, Phillip. It runs 100%
> against my biases but I have seen it in action in enough places to know
> that under some, as yet unspecified conditions (Juanita Cole, a former post
> doc here, studied this in a large group study which
> produced a patchwork of conditions where it brought kids along in ways
> that, so far as i can tell, were going to make more difficult modes of
> reading/writing more accessible.
>
> Something about the hip hop, the need to strain often to hear what is being
> said by the characters, along with the various arcade aspects is "usefully
> engaging." A complex mixture of elements to make meaning out of. The
> learning/play/emotion people among us
> could be usefully challenged, I speculate, to provide a good of account of
> "just the right recipe."
>
> mike
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 6:59 AM, White, Phillip
> <Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>
> >wrote:
>
> > yes, LASS did survive - and is described in a way that is accessible to
> > classroom teachers K - 12.
> >
> > i checked out the Learning Upgrade - particularly comprehension in
> reading
> > - the questions asked were all literal comprehension.  which makes sense
> -
> > inferential questions when answered have far more leeway, and ask for
> > support from the text - which is really the value of Palinscar and
> Brown's
> > work -  for example:  Identify a difficult concept.  How did you figure
> it
> > out?   or    A confusing part is ___________ because _____________.
> >
> > at the same time, one can never underestimate the power of the
> > relationship with learning and enjoyment.
> >
> > phillip
> >
> >
> > Phillip White, PhD
> > University of Colorado Denver
> > School of Education
> > phillip.white@ucdenver.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=phillip.white@ucdenver.edu>
> > ________________________________________
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>[
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>]
> On Behalf
> > Of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lchcmike@gmail.com>
> ]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:38 PM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] RE: Lexia
> >
> > The LASS survived the LAD I hear, Phillip.
> >
> > Quite against my predelictions, I have found that the reading program
> > produced by
> > Learning Upgrade works for a lot of kids who are way out of synch. Its
> > bottom up but something about the hip hop seems to provide enough
> > meaning-seeking to enable kids to both learn and enjoy at least in places
> > we have worked.
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 9:23 AM, White, Phillip
> > <Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Larry  -  i've been in elementary education now for 40 years - and
> deeply
> > > focused on literacy for 30 years.
> > >
> > > the effectiveness of computer based reading programs is not that
> strong -
> > > and certainly not when dealing with cultural/second language issues.
> > >
> > > i'd suggest checking out the work of Marie Clay - as well as reciprocal
> > > reading strategies - Palinscar and Brown -
> > >
> > > because, the effectiveness of teaching reading to all children relies
> on
> > > the strength of direct, immediate, pertinent feedback which is focused
> on
> > > reading strategies the student is or is not employing ( visual,
> meaning,
> > or
> > > syntax ).  and background knowledge that the students has - remember,
> all
> > > reading comprehension is domain based.
> > >
> > > in short, it takes a teacher working within that student's zpd (not
> > unlike
> > > what Bruner describes mother's doing in that last attached article a
> > couple
> > > of days back - even though the notion of a LAD has been discarded -
> > Bruner
> > > is correct in noting the critical importance of context and systems of
> > > relationships which support the practices within the zoped).
> > >
> > > phillip
> > >
> > >
> > > Phillip White, PhD
> > > University of Colorado Denver
> > > School of Education
> > > phillip.white@ucdenver.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=phillip.white@ucdenver.edu>
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>[
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>]
> On
> > Behalf
> > > Of Peter Smagorinsky [smago@uga.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=smago@uga.edu>
> ]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:39 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [xmca] Lexia
> > >
> > > http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/PDF/Lexia_Reading_v5.pdf
> > > Larry, this is all that came up in Google. Google Scholar turned up
> > > nothing except articles about dyslexia. FCCR is operated out of Florida
> > > State University so appears credible, but someone more knowledgeable
> > than I
> > > would have to chime in to confirm that.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>[mailto:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> ]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Larry Purss
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 9:46 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Bruner on Vygotsky
> > >
> > > Hi Bill
> > >
> > > I appreciate you engaging with this topic. I would like to encourage
> you
> > > to go into some depth, bringing in Bruner's insights distinguishing
> > > Piagetian and Vygotskian approaches. The Vancouver school district is
> > > searching for effective ways to support first nations students
> > >
> > > Also, if anyone has any information, articles, or musings on a
> particular
> > > computer reading program [from LEXIA].  It would help.me to reflect on
> > > and consider  the consequences of Vancouver buying a site licence for
> > Lexia
> > > to distribute in Vancouver schools who want to participate
> > >
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:53 AM, Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com<http://us.mc1805.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=billkerr@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ch 5 "The Inspiration of Vygotsky" In "Actual Minds, Possible Worlds"
> > > > http://wisdomandwit.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/zpd_bruner.pdf
> > > >
> > > > I was told to read this for HW in an accelerated literacy course I
> > > > recently attended. Accelerated Literacy is one of the methods used in
> > > > teaching indigenous Australians and low socio-economic students. See
> > > > http://www.nalp.cdu.edu.au/index.html for a bit more detail.  There
> > > > are two other methodologies I am aware of used in Australia. One is
> > > > called MULTILIT (Making Up Lost Time in Literacy) and the other is
> Zig
> > > > Engelmann's Direct Instruction, used by Noel Pearson's group in Cape
> > > > York.
> > > >
> > > > To understand Bruner's point properly I had to read pp. 72-77
> > > > carefully where he elaborates on the contradiction b/w children
> having
> > > > to learn for themselves (a sort of Piagetian view) and the adult
> > > > really teaching them across the ZPD rather than just broadcasting
> > > knowledge at them.
> > > >
> > > > After my 2 days training in AL (another 2 days due later in February)
> > > > I think they have worked out how to do that in an "honest" way. ie.
> > > > the nitty gritty of raising the literacy level which involves a
> > > > detailed analysis of the text of good writers. They selected writers,
> > > > text, various processes gone through, then shortish passages from
> > > > those texts and then did the analysis of them in such a way that real
> > > skills were being transferred.
> > > > This is very truncated. I can go into a bit more detail if requested.
> > > > Altogether I found it an inspirational coming together of theory and
> > > > practice. My background is in maths / science / IT teaching (and
> > > > secondary) so I hadn't really gone into the literacy side in this
> depth
> > > before.
> > > > __________________________________________
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