Thanks, Huw. The oppositeness of the Hegelian meaning of a bunch of
words involved here, conceptions which are continued by Marxists even
those like Vygotsky who never read Hegel, is a source of a lot of
confusion. To make sense of what these people say about abstract or
concrete or whatever, you really have to take everything they write in
the context of the totality of their work, and in turn within the
tradition in which they wrote. Otherwise they read like nonsense.
Indeed, Lenin's aphorism is quite clear and self-contained:
In order to understand it is necessary empirically to
begin understanding, study, to rise, from empiricism to the universal.
In order to learn to swim it is necessary to get into the water.
By "universal" Lenin means a principle or concept, i.e., something very
concise, which encompasses or describes a vast process such as "modern
capitalism" or "the Russian working class." The thing itself is both
abstract and concrete, but any immediate expe4rience, or as you say,
measurement of it, i.e., something abstracted from it, is abstract but
not universal. This particular worker is well-paid, but that is not a
universal; another worker may be poorly paid. When the thinker has
reproduced the object (e.g. Russian capitalism) in thought (in terms of
a huge book on the topic, such as Lenin's 1895 "The Development of
Capitalism in Russia," he (accoridng to Marx) begins with a few
abstractions, universals, such as "capitalism," "modern industry,"
etc., and then brings these universals into relation with each other,
and the various abstract measurements (wage levels, concentration of
capital, foreign ownership data, etc) and recovers an image of the
object which is *relatively* concrete. The point of Lenin's aphorism,
is that before you even begin to think about writing that book, you
have to study life, visit the workers' districts, study the accounts,
talk to capitalists, etc., etc., i.e., "empiricism", then you will
probably spend a few years (23 in Marx's case) before you are ready to
write your Magnum opus.
Does that make sense?
Andy
Huw Lloyd wrote:
On 15 August 2012 05:05, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
Greg,
Lenin's rising from the empirical to the universal is actually the
/opposite /of rising from the abstract to the concrete.
I don't agree with this, although I haven't read Lenin. The quote
seems fairly self contained though.
This does not mean that Lenin was wrong or anything, because you will
see in the excerpt from the Grundrisse that I sent that Marx is
pointing to a/ 2-phase/ movement: from the concrete of immediate
perception to the abstract universal, and then, by reconstructing the
process in thought, rising back from the abstract universal to the real
concrete. Marx explains this in more readable terms than you find in
either Lenin's gloss of Hegel's Logic or in the Logic itself.
I think your "abstract universal" is misplaced here, it is simply
abstract which is the same thing as an empirical observation, i.e. a
measurement which is an abstraction of the thing being measured.
Huw
Also, when you read that excerpt of the Grundrisse, don't stop at the
explanation of the two processes, read to the end of the section,
because there is a fine rendering by Marx of his critique of Hegel
there and a foundation for activity theory.
Andy
Greg Thompson wrote:
Still in between boxes but came across this quote from Lenin today:
‘In order to understand it is necessary empirically to begin
understanding,
study, to rise, from empiricism to the universal. In order to learn to
swim
it is necessary to get into the
water<http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/cons-logic/ch03.htm#LCW38_205>
’.
(found at:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/pilling/works/capital/pilling3.htm)
and it reminded me of one of mike's favorite statements "rising to the
concrete." Yet Mike's phrase appears quite different. So Mike, if you're
out there, does your "rising to the concrete" bear any significant
relation
to Lenin's rising to the universal? They seem like very different
concepts,
no?
-greg
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