Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren

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Huw, So I may know what your position is; do you agree that the sounds of our speech, simply as sounds, removed from words, affect us? If so, how? Joseph On Jun 5, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote: > On 5 June 2012 22:43, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com> wrote: > >> Huw, >> I am referring to the influence upon persons by the deep structure of >> spoken-word language - the relationship between the sounds of words and >> that to which they refer -. The personal intellectual activity that some >> participate in, using words as thinking facilitators, is the realm of the >> few, the ones who have the time and motivation to do so, not the majority >> of those of us who are struggling to make ends meet. The harassed masses >> typically do not have much perceived opportunity to engage in >> "extracurricular" activities. >> The affect upon us of our language is automatic and constant, while >> the understandings we achieve by our deliberate reasoning comes to us only >> by our efforts. >> I am not arguing against free will, but rather saying that whatever >> impinges on our perspective, - especially whatever impinges strongly on it >> -, should not be unknown to us. For our survival, we need to understand >> human culture. >> >> Joseph >> >> > This belongs under a separate email thread, Joseph. > > Have you looked at Halliday's writing? "The Language of Early Childhood" > covers Haliday's consideration of developmental functions in language use > which may be a good point of departure for advocating your own line of > inquiry. > > Huw > > >> >> On Jun 5, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote: >> >> On 5 June 2012 04:56, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Dear Huw: >>>> Seems I was misunderstood. The fact that there are deaf people does not >>>> make a fly in the ointment. The culture is established by those who do >>>> hear, - the 99.99% -. How do you imagine/think spoken-word language >>>> influences human world-view? >>>> >>>> >>> I imagine that one acquires a skill in construing, which is reflected in >>> questions, that one learns an etiquette: one learns how to cultivate a >>> curiosity in self and others. >>> >>> Greg, >>> >>> Re your Montreal question, did you have any thoughts around the >>> distribution of appreciating different problems in the process of emerging >>> roles? On a smaller, and perhaps simpler, scale I recall situations where >>> problems had been setup for children to stumble upon, but that were >>> seemingly not registered by them. A difficult problem left standing would >>> amount to... what? A conversation and vocabulary around site boundaries? >>> >>> The suggestion that 'communication is the "site and surface" of >>> organizations' seems productive, though I'm not taking this as >>> comprehensive, rather as a reference to communicational exchange. If we >>> want to be comprehensive then I think we need to include the >>> organisational >>> behaviour within the circumference of communication. >>> >>> Huw >>> >>> >>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote: >>>> >>>> They're of no consequence for those deaf to reason. ;) >>>>> >>>>> Huw >>>>> >>>>> On 4 June 2012 10:53, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> And here's about deaf-blind people: >>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/****archive/meshcheryakov/**** >>>>>> awakening/index.htm<http://www.marxists.org/**archive/meshcheryakov/**awakening/index.htm> >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.marxists.org/**archive/meshcheryakov/**awakening/index.htm<http://www.marxists.org/archive/meshcheryakov/awakening/index.htm> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Peter Smagorinsky wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> According to Gallaudet University (which is for deaf people), >>>>>>> http://research.gallaudet.edu/****Demographics/deaf-US.php<http://research.gallaudet.edu/**Demographics/deaf-US.php> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://research.gallaudet.edu/**Demographics/deaf-US.php<http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> There are a number of listings of deaf people of influence, e.g., >>>>>>> http://www.start-american-** >>>>>>> >>>>>> sign-language.com/famous-deaf-****people.html<http://sign-language.com/famous-deaf-**people.html> >>>> < >>>> http://www.start-american-**sign-language.com/famous-deaf-**people.html<http://www.start-american-sign-language.com/famous-deaf-people.html> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.op97.org/teach-****learn/documents/****PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf<http://www.op97.org/teach-**learn/documents/**PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.op97.org/teach-**learn/documents/**PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf<http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/documents/PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****List_of_deaf_people<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**List_of_deaf_people> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**List_of_deaf_people<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaf_people> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> http://www.deafpeople.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.** >>>>>>> >>>>>> ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>] >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert >>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 6:12 PM >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Peter, >>>>>>> What percentage of any population is deaf and what influence do they >>>>>>> exert upon the world-view of their society? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also wonder, what about deaf people? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of Vera John-Steiner >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:54 PM >>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity' >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Joseph >>>>>>>> I wonder whether the ultimate finality of the word--"everything is >>>>>>>> relative to the word"--provides a too narrow, monistic view. >>>>>>>> Euclidean geometry is rich in proofs which are presented through >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> visual >>>> >>>>> abstraction. These can be explained verbally but their persuasive >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> power is >>>> >>>>> visual. >>>>>>>> This is an interesting though wandering discussion from toes to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Euclid. >>>> >>>>> Vera >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] >>>> >>>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 3:32 PM >>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Nothing communicates as profoundly as vocal sounds, - motions of the >>>>>>>> human body -. Everything is named, - identified -, by sounds made by >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> our >>>> >>>>> body. Our own body-emotional goings on is the currency by which all >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> else is >>>> >>>>> valued. We relate to our world with our word. >>>>>>>> Everything is reletive to the word. The "final word" on anything IS >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>> word. >>>>>>>> The only handle we have on the meaning of our world is the effect on >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> us >>>> >>>>> of the sounds of our words. We can prove nothing and can only feel our >>>>>>>> vocal sounds for information of how we are affected by things. It >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> takes >>>> >>>>> different words to communicate different information. Bear in mind >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> that >>>> >>>>> words are fundamentally sounds and secondarily, referential tools. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> When we >>>> >>>>> refer to a thing, the referential tool is between ourselves and the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> thing. >>>> >>>>> We perceive and are affected by the tool - the word - first and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> foremost >>>> >>>>> and then also by the thought of the referred-to thing. Subliminally, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> the >>>> >>>>> word defines the thing: >>>>>>>> Consciously, the thing defines the word. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joseph Gilbert >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyone out there know much about Francois Cooren or the Montreal >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> School >>>> >>>>> of Organizational Communication? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the former, Cooren's book Action and Agency in Dialogue asks: >>>>>>>>> "What if human interactants were not the only ones to be considered, >>>>>>>>> paraphrasing Austin (1962), as "doing things with words"? That is, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> what if >>>> >>>>> other "things" could also be granted the status of agents in a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> dialogical >>>> >>>>> situation?" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As for the latter, the MSOC is characterized by wikipedia as: >>>>>>>>> "taking communication as the "site and surface" of organizations, >>>>>>>>> meaning that the latter emerge from and are maintained by >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> communication >>>> >>>>> processes." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Both of these seem to be very important points that, I thought, >>>>>>>>> articulate well with recent XMCA conversations. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anyone have any insight? >>>>>>>>> Perhaps a recommendation? >>>>>>>>> -greg >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>>>>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of Comparative >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Human >>>> >>>>> Cognition Department of Communication University of California, San >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Diego >>>> >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/****GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson> >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>>> < >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>> < >>>>>>> >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**--** >>>>>> ------------ >>>>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1> >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ >>>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**____________ >>>>> _____ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**____________ >>>> _____ >>>> xmca mailing list >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**____________ >>> _____ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>> >> >> ______________________________**____________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >> > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca