These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
Could it be, then, that if something importantly facilitative happens in schools, it is due to the meta-language for talking about writing, rather than from writing itself? One could imagine that such a vocabulary could be learned out of school, also. Though it remains possible that, a la Scriber and Cole, specific uses of writing in school have cognitive value. Martin On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:56 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > and there are plenty of non-textual, discursive resources for teaching > (showing?) the distinction between what is said and what is meant. Deb > (D-W) and I were just yesterday talking about when kids learn sarcasm (my > 10-year old had just commented on how he would sarcastically tell people > "Have a Great Grizzly Day!" after reprimanding them for not following the > rules of safety patrol). > > Anyway, in addition to *irony* and *sarcasm,* there are other discursive > forms that are common across cultures, the most ubiquitous of which is > *teasing.* > [And it would seem that teasing is more difficult to manage in text than in > talk b.c. of the lack of prosodic cues. Ever tried to tease someone in an > email? Or for that matter, to be ironic or sarcastic? Most common result: > Fail.] > > -greg > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote: > >> Two thoughts about Olson's work. First, the research he reports that >> explored at what age children begin to differentiate what is *said* from >> what is *meant* is open, isn't it, to the classic objection that he has >> confounded age with years of schooling. Does anyone know of similar >> research with non-schooled kids? >> >> Second, Olson says that writing makes possible the separation between >> what's said (what's written) and what's meant, and this leads to a new >> level of consciousness. Seems to me that writing presents kids with the >> *problem* that these two levels become separated (where in speech they >> coincide), and that what schools can provide is the intellectual tools (the >> meta-vocabulary) to help solve this problem. The texts don't do it alone; >> what's necessary is adults helping kids figure out the texts. >> >> Martin >> >> On Jul 2, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Michael Glassman wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, I do love chapter six. And as Peter suggests this is one of the >> biggest questions in the US right now, and Vygotsky has always seemed >> extraordinarily prescient to me - almost an avatar (not the video game >> avatar, the Hindu avatar). So this is an important issue. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >> >> __________________________________________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> > > > > -- > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. > Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar > Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition > Department of Communication > University of California, San Diego > http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca