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On 15 August 2012 05:05, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > Greg, > Lenin's rising from the empirical to the universal is actually the > /opposite /of rising from the abstract to the concrete. I don't agree with this, although I haven't read Lenin. The quote seems fairly self contained though. > This does not mean that Lenin was wrong or anything, because you will see > in the excerpt from the Grundrisse that I sent that Marx is pointing to a/ > 2-phase/ movement: from the concrete of immediate perception to the > abstract universal, and then, by reconstructing the process in thought, > rising back from the abstract universal to the real concrete. Marx explains > this in more readable terms than you find in either Lenin's gloss of > Hegel's Logic or in the Logic itself. > I think your "abstract universal" is misplaced here, it is simply abstract which is the same thing as an empirical observation, i.e. a measurement which is an abstraction of the thing being measured. Huw > > Also, when you read that excerpt of the Grundrisse, don't stop at the > explanation of the two processes, read to the end of the section, because > there is a fine rendering by Marx of his critique of Hegel there and a > foundation for activity theory. > > Andy > > > Greg Thompson wrote: > >> Still in between boxes but came across this quote from Lenin today: >> ‘In order to understand it is necessary empirically to begin >> understanding, >> study, to rise, from empiricism to the universal. In order to learn to >> swim >> it is necessary to get into the >> water<http://www.marxists.org/**archive/lenin/works/1914/cons-** >> logic/ch03.htm#LCW38_205<http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/cons-logic/ch03.htm#LCW38_205> >> > >> ’. >> (found at: >> http://www.marxists.org/**archive/pilling/works/capital/**pilling3.htm<http://www.marxists.org/archive/pilling/works/capital/pilling3.htm> >> ) >> >> and it reminded me of one of mike's favorite statements "rising to the >> concrete." Yet Mike's phrase appears quite different. So Mike, if you're >> out there, does your "rising to the concrete" bear any significant >> relation >> to Lenin's rising to the universal? They seem like very different >> concepts, >> no? >> >> -greg >> >> >> > > -- > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > ------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts > > ______________________________**____________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca