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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
Joseph, I don't *know* much but I *believe *that you are wrong. I wish you all the best as you continue to develop your thinking. Keep on singing... Cheers! :-) greg On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 4:54 PM, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>wrote: > I put the word, know, in parentheses to indicate that we don't know > objectively, in an absolute way, but, in a subjective way. We experience > "absolute" feelings. The sounds of words create feelings within our > emotional bodies, while what we call our objective knowledge is never > complete or provable. Feelings are accepted as givens, as uncontested > facts. It is a fact that we have feelings: what they mean is open to > debate. But while the endless debate goes on, we continue to have our > feelings about whatever we have words with which to refer. Our only > reliable, consensus sense of "knowing" results from the emotional-feeling > effects upon us of the sounds of our spoken words. The feelings are facts, > and universal: the search for objective meaning - whatever that is - is > ongoing and subject to controversy. So the feelings from the sounds rule by > default in the job of informing us of the meaning of things. We make > decisions not based on absolute objective knowledge, but rather on what > seems to work. Does what seems to work really work? Is our way of life > sustainable? Is our sense of what seems to work dependent upon how we are > affected by the sounds of our words? Remember, all we really have to go on > to grasp the meaning of things is our feelings about them. The more we know > about things, the more words we have to bring to bear on decisions > involving them. The more words we have to bring to bear, the more feelings > we have to consider. Those with larger vocabularies have more complex > analytical capabilities. > > Joseph Gilbert > > > On Aug 22, 2012, at 1:58 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: > > Joseph, >> music can't be the only way that we "know" what words mean - otherwise >> this >> email would be completely incomprehensible and Chomsky would have been out >> of a job long ago! >> >> But you do point to a very important aspect of language that linguistic >> anthropologists refer to as "indexicality", and which most Enlightenment >> thinkers (following Kant, e.g., Chomsky) see as largely irrelevant to the >> meaning of language (what we might say is the polar opposite of your >> position, Joseph). So you present an important corrective. We should be >> cautious, though, how far in the other direction we let the pendulum >> swing... >> >> sometimes behave so strangely >> sometimes behave so strangely >> sometimes behave so strangely >> [I can still hear the music...] >> >> -greg >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 9:42 AM, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com >> >wrote: >> >> The sound aspect of words is perceived as we perceive music. That is how >>> we "know" what it means. Music is the universal language. The sounds of >>> our >>> words is the universal language. We are moved, literally, by the sounds >>> of >>> our voices. The sounds of all our vowels and consonants relate to >>> emotions. >>> Our world-view, shared by others within our language group, is >>> established >>> by our experience of this emotional affect of our spoken words coupled >>> with >>> their referential function. When we verbalize, we feel the sounds while >>> thinking of the things. Therefore we associate the feelings of the sounds >>> of our words with the things to which we refer with them. Of course, the >>> feelings are associated with the sounds of the words, not directly with >>> the >>> things. If we did not associate the sounds with the things, we would not >>> have a clue as to the meaning of our world. This misassociation creates >>> our >>> only consensus information as to the meaning of our world. We ORDer our >>> world with our wORD. >>> >>> Joseph Gilbert >>> >>> On Aug 21, 2012, at 8:30 PM, Greg Thompson wrote: >>> >>> and I just remembered where I first heard this - on Radio Lab. Here is >>>> >>> the >>> >>>> show, listen while you work... >>>> >>>> http://www.radiolab.org/2007/**sep/24/behaves-so-strangely/<http://www.radiolab.org/2007/sep/24/behaves-so-strangely/> >>>> >>>> -greg >>>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 9:13 PM, Greg Thompson < >>>> >>> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>**wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Here is the psychologist's version of speech to song: >>>>> http://philomel.com/asa156th/**mp3/Sound_Demo_1.mp3<http://philomel.com/asa156th/mp3/Sound_Demo_1.mp3> >>>>> >>>>> for more, check out: >>>>> http://deutsch.ucsd.edu/**psychology/pages.php?i=212<http://deutsch.ucsd.edu/psychology/pages.php?i=212> >>>>> >>>>> Be sure to listen through all of the demos (the first one is the >>>>> longest >>>>> one), and listen to them in order. >>>>> >>>>> Enjoy... >>>>> >>>>> EVERYBODY SING: >>>>> >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> sometimes behave so strangely >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com >>>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Futhermore, language as music -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=hBFZsm-dnBs<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBFZsm-dnBs> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**__ >>>>>> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> >>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>; >>>>>> "LLED7408-2012@listserv. uga. edu (LLED7408-2012@listserv.uga.**edu<LLED7408-2012@listserv.uga.edu>)" >>>>>> < >>>>>> LLED7408-2012@listserv.uga.edu**>; "dave.smags@live.com" < >>>>>> dave.smags@live.com>; Jane Farrell <jefarrell@mac.com>; " >>>>>> star_karashii@hotmail.com" <star_karashii@hotmail.com>; Anne >>>>>> >>>>> Smagorinsky >>> >>>> <annesmagorinsky@me.com> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 6:27:18 PM >>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Victor Wooten: Music as a Language >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ed.ted.com/lessons/**victor-wooten-music-as-a-**language<http://ed.ted.com/lessons/victor-wooten-music-as-a-language> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________**____________ >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>>> ______________________________**____________ >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar >>>>> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition >>>>> Department of Communication >>>>> University of California, San Diego >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar >>>> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition >>>> Department of Communication >>>> University of California, San Diego >>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson> >>>> ______________________________**____________ >>>> _____ >>>> xmca mailing list >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>>> >>> >>> ______________________________**____________ >>> _____ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. >> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar >> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition >> Department of Communication >> University of California, San Diego >> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson> >> ______________________________**____________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >> > > ______________________________**____________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> > -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D. Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition Department of Communication University of California, San Diego http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca