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Andy, I am curious how what Dobkin's says here leads you to not believe that Vygotsky "actually read Hegel"?
I agree with you that the best source of information is what Vygotsky actually wrote regarding Hegelian ideas, terms, etc. I have the same question to you about that: what passages in Vygotsky's writings lead you to not believe he actually read Hegel?
A passage about Spinoza is also included below because that philosopher's great influence on Vygotsky was also mentioned.
Here is an off-topic question: does anyone know if Vygotsky's sister Zina mentioned below is the same as his sister Zinaida mentioned in the last paragraph? This is probably a dumb question because the names are so similar, but I want to make sure.
- Steve Dobkins: *******************************I got to know Vygotsky well under the following circumstances: his sister Zina and my elder sister Fanya were classmates and had been friends since their first days at school. When they were in the fourth or fifth form, they decided to organise a circle for the study of Jewish history. The nationalities question was a very serious issue in tsarist Russia, quite a sore point, so naturally they wanted to know more about their own people. Only girls from their class were admitted to the circle, but my sister also introduced me. We chose Vygotsky, who
was then fifteen, to preside over our discussions.In spite of his young age, Lev managed to bring some extraordinary elements, worth remembering in more detail, to our studies. To begin with, I must say that he had little interest in the pragmatic study of history, which was also true of the other members of the circle. We wanted to find answers to such questions as “What is history?” “What distinguishes one people from another?” “What is the role of the individual in history?” In other words, we studied the philosophy of history. Vygotsky was at the time very enthusiastic about the Hegelian view of history. His mind was then engaged by the Hegelian formula “thesis, antithesis, synthesis,” and he applied it to analysing historical events.
The circle met regularly for two years until Lev went to Moscow to study at the University. But I can safely say that not only the members but also Vygotsky had gained much during that period. In order to conduct the seminars, he had to do a lot of reading and
some deep thinking. [p. 12] ************************* Dobkins: **************************Of the great thinkers of the past who exerted the most influence on Vygotsky, Baruch Spinoza is among the foremost. Vygotsky had a profound, life-long interest in the thoughts and work of this philosopher. He conceived and began a major work on Spinoza in his youth, but he never completed it. In 1970, Voprosy Filosofii (Questions of Philosophy) journal published its opening section on Descartes, whom Vygotsky considered to be a forerunner of Spinoza. Perhaps Vygotsky’s archives contain other parts of that work. In 1915, his sister Zinaida entered the Non-Credit Women’s University Courses in Moscow, shared a room with Lev, and was constantly informed about his interests. She chose the philosophy of Spinoza as the theme of her course paper, a theme which her professors later suggested for her Candidate’s dissertation. Zinaida became a prominent linguist and co-author of many foreign language dictionaries published in this country. Constant contact with her must have
influenced the scientific interests of Vygotsky. [p. 16-17] ********************* <end of quotes> On Aug 8, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
Yes but ... David referred to this. As far as I can see all the biographers of Vygotsky get this idea from the same source, Semyon Dobkin's interview in Karl Levitin's book. We have to go there and make our own mind up about what it means. And the only other evidence is reading what Vygotsky says in his published writings.In my opinion, neither of these sources lad one to believe that he actually read Hegel.Did anyone ever read Thor Hayerdal's "Kontiki" about how everyone insisted that balsa wood sank in water. He tried it. It didn't sink. Turned out that one writer had said but this without trying it, and everyone repeated what that one author had said, and it became an established fact.Andy Martin Packer wrote:This is my favorite:"[Vygotsky] presided over local Jewish history study circle (where he met Hegel)"From "Time line of Lev Vygotsky's Life":<http://inst.usu.edu/~mimi/courses/6260/theorists/Vygotsky/vygotime.html > I've often wondered what Hegel was doing during the early 20th century. Apparently he was studying history in Russia! I wonder what he and LSV talked about.Martin On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Martin Packer wrote:"Both Mead and Vygotsky studied Hegel's writings intensively"Van der Veer, R. (1987). The relation between Vygotsky and Mead reconsidered. A comment on Glock.Studies in East European Thought. 34, Numbers 1-2 / July, 1987Do people have any opinions on this?I suspect that the concept of "influence" is more widely applied than can be justified. When is a "source" an "influence"?For example, Google gave me the following quotes: --------------- "Vygotsky was influenced by Marxist theorists" (wik.ed.uiuc.edu) "Vygotsky was influenced by Dewey" (Cambridge Companion)"Vygotsky was influenced by his contemporaries" (Peter Lloyd, Charles Fernyhough)"Vygotsky was influenced by thinkers like Spinoza, Freud, Marx and Piaget" (www.oise.utoronto.ca)"Vygotsky was influenced by the writings of Marx, Engels, and Hegel. He was also influenced by Piaget, Blonskii, and Werner" (Moll)"Vygotsky was influenced by Janet's ideas on ..." (Grigorenko)"Vygotsky was influenced by and influenced many theorists. Jean Piaget, Jerome Bruner, Albert Bandura, Etienne Wenger, and Dewey are just a few." (jonliu.com)---------------I think the first three are tenable, but the rest are not. We are "influenced" by people we interact with and those answering to the same times and problems as us. But what can I make of a claim that Vygotsky was "influenced" by Spinoza, who lived about 250 years before him? Everyone contributes to an intellectual situation and we respond to that situation, but does that amount to "influence"? "Influence" belongs to a behaviorist's lexicon I think, as it discounts any agency on the one being "influenced."I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this. Is there a distinction which is usually brought to bear here?Andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden (Erythrós Press and Media) http://www.erythrospress.com/ Orders: http://www.erythrospress.com/store/main.html#books _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca_______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmcaMartin Packer, Ph.D. Associate Professor Psychology Department Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA 15282 (412) 396-4852 www.mathcs.duq.edu/~packer/ _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andy Blunden (Erythrós Press and Media) http://www.erythrospress.com/ Orders: http://www.erythrospress.com/store/main.html#books _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
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