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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
Dear Andy
I had a previous post which deals with some of the problems you are discussing with Martin . Either Martin did not read it or kept silent .
Though you are engaged in a very hot debate , we expect you to open all messages .
Now you ask Martin to tell you a representational system which is not *material* . I tell you *language* is a system which is not material . Martin mixed the materiality of the President with the sentence he wrote referring to Him . I opine Martin (maybe you) take the materiality of the ink and that of the sound waves for the *materiality* of the language itself . Language , as a system of representations is ideal ; what it articulates *might* be material . It's also secondary as Cs is . And you know it's a *formant* of the Cs .
And we have other systems : models , statues , copies , books , clocks and watches -- our distant past debate , not just the hands of the clock but the clock itself -- , even churches vis a vis ordinary buildings representing a relation between God and His Slaves / Worshippers or the angels carved thereon .
And the yardstick which still measures accurately will be the two Lenin conditions : 1. Being outside of the mind 2. Being independent of the mind/Cs . The above realize just the first condition .
Best
Haydi
--- On Fri, 9/25/09, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Consciousness "only a part of the material quality of the man-sign"
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Date: Friday, September 25, 2009, 1:09 AM
Martin, tell me a representational system which is *not* material.
a
Martin Packer wrote:
> humans have evolved to use an ordered series of "representational systems." The sequence is as follows: the episodic, mimetic, mythic, and theoretic. I won't go into the details, but crucially important, I think, is that these systems are material.
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