Re: RE: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"

[Helen Grimmett <helen.grimmett@education.monash.edu.au>]

That's weird. I don't get any text at all when I 'hover'. Not even any
'flashes' of insight for me! Seems to be the consistent story of my day
as I sit struggling with my writing...

But anyway, thanks Andy. It does all help us struggling neophytes work
out where everyone belongs. Gotta lot of reading to do!

Cheers,
Helen


----- Original Message -----
From: David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu>
Date: Thursday, November 12, 2009 11:42 am
Subject: RE: FW: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's "genealogy"
To: ablunden@mira.net
Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

> Andy, I replied off-line, but your response was intended for on-
> line, so
> I'm forwarding to the list. ...David
> 
> David H Kirshner wrote:
> > Much appreciate the graphic, Andy.
> > Unfortunately the accompanying text lingers for only a few seconds
> > before needing to be refreshed by moving cursor out of and back into
> > box. Is this something that can be controlled on your end?
> 
> Andy replied: 
> Yes, very annoying, isn't it David. I have searched around 
> the internet, but so far I haven't found any way of 
> controlling this time. Any HTML or Java whizzkids out there?
> Andy
> 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> >  
> > 
> >              Andy Blunden
> > 
> >              <ablunden@mira.ne
> > 
> >              t>
> > To 
> >              Sent by:                  "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> > Activity"  
> >              xmca-bounces@webe         <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > 
> >              r.ucsd.edu
> > cc 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > Subject 
> >              11/11/2009 01:18          Re: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's
> > 
> >              AM                        "genealogy"
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >              Please respond to
> > 
> >              ablunden@mira.net
> > 
> >              ; Please respond
> > 
> >                     to
> > 
> >               "eXtended Mind,
> > 
> >                  Culture,
> > 
> >                  Activity"
> > 
> >              <xmca@weber.ucsd.
> > 
> >                    edu>
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.htm
> > 
> > I replaced the PDF with an HTML version, which gives you
> > little 50-word summaries of what each contributed to CHAT
> > (when you hover) and a link to their Wikipedia page (when
> > you click).
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> > Martin Packer wrote:
> >> Andy, thinking on this a bit further, it seems to me that these
> > diagrams
> >> are trying to do two different things at the same time. One is to
> >> provide helpful contextual information to anyone reading LSV's 
> texts.> I
> >> think this itself is a valuable enterprise, one that compensates a
> >> little for the minimal teaching of the history of the discipline in
> >> psychology, at least. A diagram serving this purpose need go no
> > further
> >> towards the present than the end of Vygotsky's life. And for 
> this the
> >> lines to and from Vygotsky himself would be redundant; he would be
> >> connected to everyone.
> >>
> >> A second task, and a distinct one in my view, would be a diagram
> >> indicating forms of, and influences on, CHAT today. Here people 
> like>> Helmholtz and Fichte would, I think, not play a role - their
> influence
> >> would be entirely mediated by LSV. And such a diagram would be more
> >> detailed about the present: for example, the last row of your 
> diagram> is
> >> almost exclusively people working in the US; it would be helpful to
> > see
> >> here Scandinavian, German, British, etc. schools of CHAT.
> >>
> >> I'm not volunteering you for the work (nor do I have time to do it
> >> myself), just trying to think through the role of this kind of
> >> representational reconstruction of intellectual history.
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 9, 2009, at 12:18 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, it is mind-boggling. Probably better for people to produce a
> >>> multiplicity of different perspectives, than try to produce a 
> master>>> view. There are so many angles!
> >>>
> >>> Lewin is interesting. Not only was he close to the Frankfurt 
> School,>>> but he also worked with Vygotsky, and I suspect this is 
> where> Vygotsky
> >>> got a lot of his Hegel from.
> >>>
> >>> Andy
> >>>
> >>> Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>> Andy, I think the map is interesting and useful. But how about
> this.
> >>>> I was exploring further on the virtual library that I 
> mentioned in
> a
> >>>> prior message. It turns out there's quite a lot there in English,
> > not
> >>>> only German. I had been enjoying myself browsing through scans of
> > the
> >>>> papers of Carl Stumpf, who was teacher of both Kurt Lewin and
> Edmund
> >>>> Husserl. Teacher-student seems to me one important connection
> > between
> >>>> figures. Lewin apparently had regular contact with the Frankfurt
> >>>> School (connection of 'colleague') before leaving for the US, 
> where>>>> he would have found himself transplanted into the new 
> milieu of
> >>>> behaviorism.
> >>>> I think Mike is right, we need 3D!
> >>>> Martin
> >>>> On Nov 8, 2009, at 9:07 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>> I've been thinking ... What these diagrams lack is any 
> information>>>>> about why a writer is included and what they 
> contributed to CHAT.
> >>>>> Would anyone on the list like to put their hand up to write a
> >>>>> paragraph (max 100 words probably) on a writer on the diagram
> >>>>> explaining their contribution to CHAT and their sources? I would
> be
> >>>>> happy to collate them and fix the essays to hyperlinks on the
> names
> >>>>> of each writer? ... if others do most of the writing ... then 
> the>>>>> diagram might be genuinely useful.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andy
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>> Mmmmm. I didn't sign up for an intellecual map of the universe
> >>>>>> here! The French Revolution produced a mass of political theory
> of
> >>>>>> course, but also, it is widely regarded as the inspiration for
> >>>>>> Classical German Philosophy, which is one of our sources.
> >>>>>> World War One?  I don't know, but I have thought in the past 
> that>>>>>> what Vygotsky called "The Crisis in Psychology", viz., 
> the myriad
> >>>>>> of conflicting currents in psychology suddenly contesting each
> >>>>>> other after WW1, was some kind of reaction to WW1 and the 
> Russian>>>>>> Revolution.
> >>>>>> The Reformation and the Industrial Revolution deserve mention
> >>>>>> somewhere too, in the atlas of ideas. ...
> >>>>>> Andy
> >>>>>> mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hmmmmm, like the French revolution or world war I for example?
> >>>>>>> :-)
> >>>>>>> mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Andy Blunden 
> <ablunden@mira.net>>>>>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Both Arne's and mine are listed on
> >>>>>>>   http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/index.html and both are in 
> that>>>>>>>   directory. I too would be interested in seeing some 
> other> versions.
> >>>>>>>   Something might emerge out of the crowd.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   It is interesting isn't that it is a quite small number 
> of ...
> > what
> >>>>>>>   do you say? ... millieux? events? movements? which produced
> the
> >>>>>>> main
> >>>>>>>   ideas, via a whole mass of individual writers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Andy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       I think your pictured genealogy is interesting, Andy. I
> > thought
> >>>>>>>       Arne's was too, and I a sure others can make interesting
> >>>>>>>       modifications. If anyone could do this in three D it 
> could> get
> >>>>>>>       really fascinating.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Part of what makes for the partiality of any such 
> attempt> is
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>       position of the creator. Arne was a radical cultural
> > historical
> >>>>>>>       cognitive scientist of the
> >>>>>>>       70's-90's (roughly), an importatant odd hybrid and
> > unusually
> >>>>>>>       nice guy.
> >>>>>>>       Maturana, who is on his list, with Varela, were central
> > figures
> >>>>>>>       on bringing
> >>>>>>>       dynamic systems into the discussion but you do not know
> > about
> >>>>>>>       him just
> >>>>>>>       as many of us do not know some of the figures you name,
> and
> > the
> >>>>>>>       connections such as Dilthey-Wundt or Mead-Dilthey-
> American>>>>>>>       pragmatism are poorly known altogether, but 
> fascinating(to
> >>>>>>> me!)
> >>>>>>>       in their implications.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       And, of course, the historical events that various of us
> > might
> >>>>>>>       highlight as
> >>>>>>>       most relevant are going to vary as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       Thanks for the new tool to think with. I'll try to get
> > Arne's
> >>>>>>>       genealogy put
> >>>>>>>       up where yours is and perhaps others will contribute 
> from> their
> >>>>>>>       perspectives.
> >>>>>>>       mike
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>       On Sun, Nov 8, 2009 at 6:42 AM, Andy Blunden
> > <ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>          Well, here's my shot at it:
> >>>>>>>            http://lchc.ucsd.edu/mca/Paper/Genealogy-CHAT.pdf
> >>>>>>>          I have tried to deal with your very valid point,
> Martin,
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>       it is
> >>>>>>>          more the milieux than individuals, but I have also 
> just>>>>>>> omitted a
> >>>>>>>          billion possible arrows so it is readable. It needs
> more
> >>>>>>> than one
> >>>>>>>          person to do this.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>          Andy
> >>>>>>>          Martin Packer wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>              My question about the map is what the links
> >>>>>>> represent. After
> >>>>>>>              all, one scientist or philosopher may accept the
> >>>>>>> ideas or
> >>>>>>>              another, or react against them, or modify 
> them, or
> >>>>>>>       misunderstand
> >>>>>>>              them. Seems to me each of these is a different
> link.
> >>>>>>> Also, a
> >>>>>>>              family tree indicates two parents for every
> progeny,
> >>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>              Arne's genealogy seemingly shows spontaneous
> >>>>>>> generation - one
> >>>>>>>              figure alone can produce another. And wouldn't we
> >>>>>>> want to
> >>>>>>>       have a
> >>>>>>>              way to map the milieus within which people were
> > working?
> >>>>>>>       Perhaps
> >>>>>>>              something along the lines of the social fields 
> that>>>>>>>       Bourdieu was
> >>>>>>>              fond of sketching, but with an added historical
> >>>>>>> dimension.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>              Martin
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>              On Nov 4, 2009, at 1:44 AM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  To tell the truth Louise, there are a 
> couple of
> >>>>>>> names I
> >>>>>>>                  don't know and half a dozen I know so little
> > about
> > I
> >>>>>>>       don't
> >>>>>>>                  know why they're included ... or not. Two of
> the
> >>>>>>> three
> >>>>>>>                  "outcomes" are people who think humans are a
> > type
> > of
> >>>>>>>                  computer, so I am not surpised that this
> >>>>>>> genealogy is
> >>>>>>>       odd to
> >>>>>>>                  me. But there is sooooo much out there. So 
> much> to
> >>>>>>>       read. :(
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Up till a few weeks ago I thought that 
> starting> with
> >>>>>>>                  Descartes was not justified, but I take that
> > back
> >>>>>>>       now. But
> >>>>>>>                  somehow, Rene's nemesis, Aristotle, needs 
> to be
> >>>>>>>       included as
> >>>>>>>                  well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I don't know anything about Vico, but I find
> > Locke,
> >>>>>>>       Berkeley
> >>>>>>>                  and Leibniz to be rather peripheral to *our*
> > story.
> >>>>>>>                  Kant certainly deserves an important 
> place, but
> > I
> >>>>>>>       think his
> >>>>>>>                  nemesis, Goethe, may be more important for 
> us.>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Fichte is actually the inventor of 
> Activity as
> a
> >>>>>>>                  philosophical concept (I just learnt that 
> Hegel>>>>>>> asked
> >>>>>>>       to be
> >>>>>>>                  buried next to Fichte; like Goethe, very 
> under>>>>>>>       recognized in
> >>>>>>>                  the Anglophone world).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Hegel is the inventor of Cultural Psychology,
> so
> >>>>>>>       agreed there.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I think Stirner and Mach are total diversions
> >>>>>>> from our
> >>>>>>>                  tradition. But maybe someone can explain 
> to me
> > their
> >>>>>>>       role.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Wundt and Dilthey are important, though I 
> don't> know
> >>>>>>>       them well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Feuerbach is a bit of a footnote, but if 
> you're>>>>>>> going to
> >>>>>>>                  have Feuerbach, you've gotta have Moses Hess,
> >>>>>>> author of
> >>>>>>>                  "Philosophy of the Deed", and inspiration for
> >>>>>>> "Theses on
> >>>>>>>                  Feuerbach". Of course if you think Frege,
> > Russell
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>       Turing
> >>>>>>>                  are important to the genealogy of CHAT, then
> you
> >>>>>>> wouldn't
> >>>>>>>                  want Hess.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  MARX, obviously, in CAPS.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  And I would have lines from a whole bunch of
> > people
> >>>>>>>       going to
> >>>>>>>                  Dewey, as well as Peirce and Mead, but even
> >>>>>>> though Peirce
> >>>>>>>                  was the elder, I don't think you can give him
> > such
> >>>>>>>       priority.
> >>>>>>>                  Dewey surely was the leader. Arguable.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  And where are the Gestaltists? Again, not for
> >>>>>>> computer
> >>>>>>>                  cognition, but there needs to be lines 
> between>>>>>>> Goethe and
> >>>>>>>                  Kant and then to von Ehrenfels, and on to
> > Koehler
> >>>>>>> and Co.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Russian linguists like Potebnya, but I don't
> > know
> >>>>>>>       where they
> >>>>>>>                  came from.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  And these threads are all tied together 
> with LS
> >>>>>>>       Vygotsky, yes?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Freud has to be mentioned (I forget his
> > sources),
> >>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>                  arrows to Luria. And after Vygotsky and Luria
> > you
> >>>>>>>       have ANL
> >>>>>>>                  and thus to present day people,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I guess, you can't leave out Piaget, and I
> don't
> >>>>>>> know
> >>>>>>>                  Piaget's sources.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I know some people rate Merleau-Ponty, but if
> > you're
> >>>>>>>       going
> >>>>>>>                  to give Merleau-Pony a seat, you have to 
> put in
> >>>>>>>       Lukacs and
> >>>>>>>                  Horkheimer. I guess Habermas for discourse
> >>>>>>> ethics, etc.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Husserl and Heidegger 
> get a
> >>>>>>>       mention. I my
> >>>>>>>                  humble opinion, as clever as they might be,
> > their
> >>>>>>>       impact on
> >>>>>>>                  Activity Theory has only been negative.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I have no idea why Bergson is mentioned: 
> was he
> > a
> >>>>>>>       source for
> >>>>>>>                  Piaget? Don't know why Nietzsche is there.
> >>>>>>>       Interesting guy,
> >>>>>>>                  but so are many others. Why von Uexhill?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  I agree that Wittgenstein rates a mention,
> > though
> >>>>>>> I don't
> >>>>>>>                  know how much of a source he has been for us.
> He
> >>>>>>> is some
> >>>>>>>                  kind of version of Activity Theory.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Frege, Russell and Turing are nothing to do
> with
> >>>>>>>       CHAT. What
> >>>>>>>                  about anthropologists??
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Never heard of Maturana.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  That's my reaction,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Andy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  Louise Hawkins wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                      Andy,
> >>>>>>>                      I remember seeing this diagram a 
> number of
> >>>>>>> years ago,
> >>>>>>>                      and I found it useful as a big picture
> >>>>>>> diagram to
> >>>>>>>       get my
> >>>>>>>                      head around the significant theorist.
> >>>>>>>                      Regards
> >>>>>>>                      Louise Hawkins
> >>>>>>>                      Lecturer - School of Management &
> > Information
> >>>>>>> Systems
> >>>>>>>                      Faculty Business & Informatics
> >>>>>>>                      Building 19/Room 3.38
> >>>>>>>                      Rockhampton Campus
> >>>>>>>                      CQUniversity
> >>>>>>>                      Ph: +617 4923 2768
> >>>>>>>                      Fax: +617 4930 9729
> >>>>>>>                       -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>                      From: Andy Blunden
> [mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >>>>>>>                      <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>] Sent: Wednesday, 4 November
> >>>>>>>                      2009 01:05 PM
> >>>>>>>                      To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >>>>>>>                      Subject: [xmca] Arne Raeithel's 
> "genealogy">>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Paper/Theoretical%20connections.jpg
> >>>>>>>                      I never found this map very useful to be
> > honest.
> >>>>>>>                      Andy
> >>>>>>>                      mike cole wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                          Have you found Arne Raeithel's
> >>>>>>> "genealogy" of
> >>>>>>>                          cultural-historical, activity theory
> >>>>>>> thinkers
> >>>>>>>       from
> >>>>>>>                          several years back. I am sure it is
> >>>>>>> somewhere at
> >>>>>>>                          lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>       <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>                          <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>. Perhaps you
> (and
> >>>>>>> Andy,
> >>>>>>>                          and.....) could update it with
> >>>>>>>                          more detail. Hegel generated so much
> > that
> >>>>>>> has
> >>>>>>>       been
> >>>>>>>                          "laundered" by subsequent "original"
> >>>>>>> thinkers its
> >>>>>>>                          totally amazing, and ditto Mead 
> (whose>>>>>>> writings i
> >>>>>>>                          know far better, although very
> >>>>>>> inadequately).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>                      xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>                      xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                      http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  --
> >>>>>>>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >>>>>>>                  Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>                  Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
> >>>>>>>       Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>                  Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  
> _______________________________________________>>>>>>>              
>    xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>                  xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>                  http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>          --
> >>>>>>>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >>>>>>>          Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>          Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev,
> > Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>          Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>          _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>          xmca mailing list
> >>>>>>>          xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>>>>>       <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   --
> >>>>>>>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >>>>>>>   Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>>>>   Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>>>>   Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >>>>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>>>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> >>>>> Ilyenkov $20 ea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>> --
> >>>
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> >>> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> >>> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> Ilyenkov
> >>> $20 ea
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> xmca mailing list
> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> > 
> > --
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> > Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
> > Ilyenkov $20 ea
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > 
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
> Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, 
> Ilyenkov $20 ea
> 
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> 
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