Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?

[ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>]

Thanks

2010/1/16, Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>:
>
>
> Ulvi,
> I Guess, in English this book's title was "The working Brain - an
> introduction to neuropsychology", because in Portuguese we have a
> translation "Fundamentals of Neuropsychology" (Fundamentos de
> Neuropsicologia).  Russian: Основы нейропсихологии. [Osnovy
> neyropsykhokogiy] — Мoscow., 1973. Bella will correct me if I misunderstand.
> > Date: Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:17:22 +0200
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > From: ulvi.icil@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > Bella, is there an English translation of Luria's "Basics of
> > Neuropsychology"?
> > I could not find any hint about that...
> > Thanks
> > Ulvi
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/1/16, Bella Kotik-Friedgut <bella.kotik@gmail.com>:
> > >
> > > As a student I took part in Leontjev's course on geleral psychology and
> the
> > > his distancing was not obvious (at least for us as students because one
> of
> > > the compulsory tasks was to read "  Thinking and Speech" and to be
> examined
> > > fully on one book as well as another task to read Leontjev;s "Problems
> of
> > > development of mind") As for the tradition: Luria's "Basics of
> > > Neuropsychology" is based on Vygotsky's ideas  quite explicitly. Is
> this an
> > > expression of cultural-historical tradition?
> > >
> > > Bella Kotik
> > > .
> > > On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 5:57 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Achilles. I think we have lived to witness exactly "non-liner genetic
> > > > course
> > > > or history."  For many complex reasons Vygotsky "missed" the dominant
> > > trend
> > > > of his times, behaviorism/psychoanalysis" in a way that anticipated
> the
> > > > turn
> > > > away from Piaget (who did not become "mainstream" in USA until late
> > > > 1950's-60's) and banishment of Freud from mainstream psychology to
> > > cultural
> > > > studies circles and, in watered down fashion, human potential
> movements)
> > > so
> > > > that when
> > > > Toulmin wrote about "The mozart of psychology" his clearly
> idiocyncratic
> > > > interpretation fell like a match into a pool of gasoline (that looked
> for
> > > > all the world like a pool of water). The "Vygotsky
> > > > explosion" that many, such as Laszlo Garai in Hungary have written
> about,
> > > > and that so irritate many, was the result.
> > > >
> > > > Its really a fascinating process to have lived through, contributed
> to,
> > > > been guilty of, etc.
> > > >
> > > > And look at one of its consequences. We chatter across the globe as
> > > easily,
> > > > or more easily, than we get a loaf of bread...... while others
> starve.
> > > >
> > > > Non linear for sure.
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > >  achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not historicist, but I can remember something from Benjamin
> about
> > > > > "tradition" x "conservationism" ... That tradition is not always
> > > > > conservative nor authoritarian, there are democratic, dialogical,
> > > > > revolutionary traditions too... I guess - in addition - that
> perhaps
> > > > > something like a "cultural tradition" (any cultural tradition, in
> > > diverse
> > > > > fields of society collective actions) can have a non-liner genetic
> > > course
> > > > or
> > > > > history... I dont know if this is terminologically possible or
> > > adequate.
> > > > But
> > > > > a psychological theory, and/or approach, and/or "perspective" (has
> some
> > > > > people tell here in Brazil: "historical-cultural perspective") -
> can
> > > not
> > > > be
> > > > > like a dogmatic religious tradition (despite I have any doubts if
> even
> > > > > religions can be strictly dogmatic all the time without any secular
> > > > > influences and changes to dialog with broader cultural contexts,
> etc.).
> > > > In
> > > > > this sense neither behaviorism or psychoanalysis could be
> understood as
> > > > an
> > > > > strict "tradition" (there was fights and ruptures all the time,
> > > > dissidences,
> > > > > detours, new trends, and interpretations, etc.). Scientific thought
> > > > > presupposes changes as a sine qua non condition of its own
> existence...
> > > > Of
> > > > > course, in the field of the Vygotsky's intelectual, cultural,
> legacy
> > > > > ("puzzle kind" legacy) the discontinuous, intermittent, sometimes
> > > > enigmatic,
> > > > > character of the history of this "(non)tradition" it is very
> eminent.
> > > > There
> > > > > are several important intellectual disputes about the "correct
> > > > > interpretation", the best exegetic tools, etc. But how can we name
> this
> > > > > historical process? Is there something in this that can have the
> same
> > > > name?
> > > > > Every new name means an actual paradigmatic rupture? A name never
> can
> > > be
> > > > > only one meaning, of course. The sample of the name of the Journal
> is
> > > > really
> > > > > worthwhile - a kind of "family name" (as "complex" in thought and
> > > > language
> > > > > relations). People sometimes use names, words, has sign of some
> > > > collective
> > > > > identity, to be included in a broader common troupe of social
> actors...
> > > > this
> > > > > is far to be something harmonious or ideally synergistic, but exist
> > > some
> > > > > need to stay in touch with persons that have some common interests,
> > > > mainly
> > > > > common values, as Mike said. If this can be named a tradition, now
> I
> > > > already
> > > > > don't if is the more important question.
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:26:30 -0800
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Perhaps we can get the shif book translated if it is interesting.
> > > Does
> > > > it
> > > > > > exist in Russian, Anton?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I disagree with only one part of what you say about
> > > > "cultural-historical"
> > > > > > school never existing. In the period from about 1956 following
> > > Stalin's
> > > > > > death, to the death of Luria and Leontiev, there was an
> identifiable
> > > > > group
> > > > > > of people who met together, talked together, shared certain ideas
> and
> > > > > > values. They were also quite influential as heads of some
> departments
> > > > and
> > > > > > institutes. They did not all agree with each other (Achille's
> > > evocation
> > > > > of
> > > > > > family strikes me as about right) and Leontiev was both feared
> and
> > > > > distanced
> > > > > > from the others, but they maintained a kind of uneasy alliance.
> Here
> > > I
> > > > > would
> > > > > > include
> > > > > > Luria, Zaporzhets, Elkonin, Slavina, Morozova, and perhaps a few
> > > > others.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is a great irony that NOW there is a journal of
> > > cultural-historical
> > > > > > psychology in Russia. But perhaps, not a bad thing.
> > > > > > mike (socio-cultural-historical activity scholar) :-))
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I really understand... Maybe we can say that Vygotsky himself
> was
> > > > > notever
> > > > > > > following his own "project"... In some documents (letters) he
> > > > > expresshis
> > > > > > > desire to dedicate to an species of "cause", the
> "reconstruction of
> > > > > > > allpsychological science, building an unified approach, but I
> > > really
> > > > > feel
> > > > > > > that therewas no "tradition" stricto sensu, nor no "vigotskian
> > > > school"
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > very definitefashion... Even more to read Vygotsky is hard
> > > exegetical
> > > > > task,
> > > > > > > his all workseems to be a kind of complex million pieces
> puzzle, at
> > > > > least
> > > > > > > for us non Russianreaders... I dont know... But when everybody
> > > lies,
> > > > we
> > > > > need
> > > > > > > to think aboutmethodological tools to define if there is a
> possible
> > > > > > > differentiation betweenlies and truth, or we can be satisfied
> with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > impossibility of any truth inany social discourse... In
> capitalists
> > > > > liberal
> > > > > > > regimes, people can tell some liesin order to satisfy editorial
> > > needs
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > market demands too... financial researchfounds to their(our)
> > > > projects,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > so on. Then, nobody is without guilt... inthis great social
> game
> > > for
> > > > > > > personal success in unequal power relationships, between
> nations,
> > > > > between
> > > > > > > institutions, between groups, persons, or evenbetween brothers
> at
> > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > home...
> > > > > > > :-(
> > > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:35:51 -0800
> > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Same thing. No answer. Special research needed. Everybody
> lies.
> > > > From
> > > > > > > 1930s -- onwards.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, note: "Cultural-historical tradition" sensu Vygotsky
> never
> > > > > existed.
> > > > > > > And hardly exists today.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:59:24 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Anton,
> > > > > > > > This sounds much better! :-)Thank you very much. And about
> this
> > > > > > > title?Психология глухих. (Под ред. И.М. Соловьева, Ж.И. Шиф,
> Т.В.
> > > > > Розановой
> > > > > > > и Н.В. Яшковой), М., 1971.Not already from the 1930s... What
> you
> > > > > recommends?
> > > > > > > I found an recent Russian publication from 2006,{
> > > > > > > http://bookseller.ru/book.php?n=1454} but I did not feel
> secure to
> > > > > order
> > > > > > > in my blind condition tounderstand the book importance or
> relation
> > > to
> > > > > > > historical-cultural tradition...
> > > > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:48:14 -0800
> > > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > RE: Its important to know that it is not near to Vygotsky's
> > > > trends.
> > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I never said so. I guess I meant to state that the
> connection
> > > is
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > obvious and requires substantial textual analysis. Especially
> so,
> > > > given
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > deliberately cryptic style of writing in Soviet Psychology from
> the
> > > > > 1930s
> > > > > > > onwards...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:12:00 PM
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I understand.Thank you very much.I saw that there is
> something
> > > > from
> > > > > her
> > > > > > > about deaf psychology, for instance, etc.Its important to know
> that
> > > > it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > not near to Vygotsky's trends.
> > > > > > > > > Best.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:10:21 -0800
> > > > > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in
> English?
> > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I personally strongly doubt any translation of this book
> ever
> > > > > > > existed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Good luck anyway!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -- However, there is other stuff by Shif available in
> > > English,
> > > > > but it
> > > > > > > is hardly related to her Leningrad work and represent her later
> > > > Moscow
> > > > > work
> > > > > > > in defectology...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 2:37:26 AM
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi XMCA
> > > > > > > > > > people…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In order to
> > > > > > > > > > help another friend of mine, biologist, studying
> scientific
> > > > > concepts
> > > > > > > > > > development, I’m wonder if you have any notice about
> English
> > > > > > > (Spanish, French,
> > > > > > > > > > etc.) publication from the following text:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Shif, J. I. “Razvitie nauchnykh ponyatii u schko’nika:
> > > > > > > > > > Issledovanie k voprosu umstvenogo razvitiya shkol’nika
> pri
> > > > > obuchenii
> > > > > > > > > > obshchestvovedeniyu” [The development of scientific
> concepts
> > > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > school
> > > > > > > > > > child: The investigation of intellectual development of
> the
> > > > > school
> > > > > > > child in
> > > > > > > > > > social science instruction]. Moscow – Leningrad:
> > > > Gosudarstvennoe
> > > > > > > > > > Uchebno-Pedagicheskoe Izdatel’stvo. 1935.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I’m trying
> > > > > > > > > > the Russian high now, but we are not so prepared to
> actually
> > > > > > > translate Russian so
> > > > > > > > > > soon, without a huge time spending… And there are many
> other
> > > > > Russian
> > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > > > prior at the schedule, most of that already provide
> thanks
> > > you
> > > > > all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you have any notice... :-)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > > > > very much. Good 2010 for all.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best
> > > > > > > > > > wishes.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > _______________________________________________
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