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The comments on learning to be intent observer fit Rogoff data. For small hunter-gatherer societies, I am guessing that something like apprenticeship is in a limited number of domains. Shamanism, midwifery come to mind, but what else is plausible? Once we get to agriculture, the situation changes a lot, of course. mike On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Worthen, Helena Harlow < hworthen@illinois.edu> wrote: > Hello -- > > The majority of hours of teaching and learning in the construction trades > apprenticeship programs take place in on the job training. A > plumber/pipefitter may have 1,000 hours of classroom training over 5 years > but may put in over 1,000 hours per year of OJT over that same 5 years. The > ratios of OJT to classroom are about the same for other trades. > > I would agree with what Vera says about underdevelopment of observational > skills. It takes practice both to learn how to watch someone work and to > learn how to work in a way that someone watching can learn from. This is a > set of practices that some journeymen are conscious of and others are > oblivious to. > > Helena > > Helena Worthen > Clinical Associate Professor > Labor Education Program University of Illinois > 504 East Armory, Champaign, IL 61820 > 217-244-4095 > hworthen@illinois.edu > communicate/coordinate/cooperate/collaborate > > -----Original Message----- > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On > Behalf Of Vera Steiner > Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 12:59 PM > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: Purposes and processes of education > > Hi, > There is a lot of apprenticeship education going on in Southwestern Native > communities, whether in farming, > pottery or jewelry There are still multigenerational families known for > their excellence in some of these crafts. The transmission of skills in > these domains requires observational as well as verbal teaching/learning. > The underdevelopment of observational skills in most Westernized schools by > their frequent exclusive focus on verbal teaching is a questionable > practice. It narrows the curriculum, the role of parents as contributors to > education and learners' preparation for laboratory sciences.Including > observational learning in our theories and curriculum is hard to achieve in > these times of narrow, test-driven education, but these limitations are > part > of the challenges that fuel the energy of xmca participants. > Vera > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tony Whitson" <twhitson@UDel.Edu> > To: "mike cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com> > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>; "huyi" > <huyi1910@hotmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2010 9:47 PM > Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: Purposes and processes of education > > > >I should be going to bed now (NYC time zone), or else turning around work > >from advisees that I'm behind on; but this topic has got me going. > > > > Now I'm remembering one of my favorite short stories by the great 20th > > century writer Lu Xun. I'm not remembering the title, but it depicts an > > evening dramatic performance in a Chinese village. I am sure that this > > sort of event has been going on for centuries. It would be a mode of > > instruction for the young people; but it would be an activity that was > not > > happening solely or primarily for that "instructional" purpose. It was > for > > antertainment and socialization for adults, but the "instructional" > > function would have also been salient, if not necessarily "deliberate." > > > > It seems to me one question here has to do with the degree to which it > > matters if the activity is conducted specifically for its "instructinal" > > value. > > > > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, mike cole wrote: > > > >> I think this speculation is correct, Tony and lets hope someone can help > >> us > >> know: > >> > >> "I would bet that they have been used over the centuries as media for > >> transmitting culture orally, through stories told by illiterate > grown-ups > >> to > >> children who were not being schooled." > >> > >> Deliberate instruction is clearly not co-incident with literacy and > >> schooling (30+ children to one adult, print mediated). Infants are > >> deliberately (if not-so-effectively) instructed by parents. > >> > >> This is a great example of the belief that to study learning and > >> development > >> one has to study the history of these forms of change at several > >> different > >> scales of time and synchronic scale. > >> > >> Wow. > >> mike > > _______________________________________________ > > xmca mailing list > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > _______________________________________________ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > _______________________________________________ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca