Re: [xmca] Fwd: Purposes and processes of education

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Fascinating, Yuan. I have ordered texts and now its up to me to do a lot of reading and thinking. Thanks for all for all your suggestions and help. mike On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 10:20 PM, yuan lai <laiyuantaiwan@gmail.com> wrote: > I’m no expert on Chinese cultural practices and schools of thought. My > understanding of Daoism, after thinking about it for days, does not add to > what others here have written. I did a few searches and found an article by > Hayhoe and Li, "The Idea of a Normal University in the 21st Century", > currently available at > https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/handle/1807/17889 > > It is about teacher education and has information on higher education in > Chinese history. A few excerpts seem relevant: > > "The purpose of education and learning was defined as ‘to let one’s inborn > virtue shine forth, to renew the people, and to rest in the highest good,’ > as stated in the Great Learning (Daxue), showing a harmonious integration > between the individual good and the benefit of society (Lee, 2000:10-11). > Education and learning were thus the first priority in any political agenda, > as made explicit in the Theory of Education (Xueji), one part of Liji (the > Book of Rites) in the Five Classics." > > "The first imperial institutions of higher learning (taixue) were > established during the Western Han dynasty in 124 BCE, and these continued > as an important part of the imperial government through changing dynasties > up the last dynasty, the Qing. The purpose was to prepare scholar officials > and the selection of teachers and students was thus serious, competitive and > rigid. At first a system of recommendation was used, with teachers for the > taixue, called “scholars of broad learning” (boshi), initially selected by > local officials, then recommended by ministers and finally approved by the > emperor himself. In the Eastern Han Dynasty (25-220 CE) an examination > system was initiated and used along side of recommendation. This later > developed into the famous civil service examination system (keju zhidu) > which was formally established during the Sui Dynasty in 606 CE. Thereafter > these examinations became the only way in which talented people could become > teachers in the imperial institutions of higher learning or officials > serving in other roles within the government." > > "China also had a long history of private higher education, going back to > the 6th century BCE. During the Warring States period (475-221 BCE) private > schools were so widespread, that many states saw them as a key strategy for > attracting talented people for political purposes (Li, 1991a; 1991b). A > striking example is the Jixia Academy, established by Duke Huan in the state > of Qi in the third century BCE. At one time it had a population of more than > ten thousand students and teachers. While it was an imperial higher > institution, it was effectively private and provided space for many > different schools to debate with and learn from each other, without any > intervention from government." > > Mike, it seems that the short sections above in Hayhoe and Li would answer > in part your questions on schooling and the government, purpose of > education. If you were looking for information pertaining to the education > of school-age children, I know that Three Character Classic is a primer that > had been used to teach children about numbers, basic knowledge like the > seasons, Chinese history, and Confucian teaching. > http://www.afpc.asso.fr/wengu/wg/wengu.php?l=Sanzijing > > I guess the primer can be called a nursery rhyme. I believe that young > children were first taught to recite before they got down to learning to > read and write Chinese characters, if there were further opportunity to > proceed. I found this short description which makes reference to > ethnographic data. > > www.umich.edu/~aos/2003/aosabstracts2003.pdf<http://www.umich.edu/%7Eaos/2003/aosabstracts2003.pdf> > > “Zev Handel, University of Washington > > Examples of Text Recitations in the Old Reading Tradition of Xingtian > Township, Wuyishan County, Fujian > > In November 2002 I carried out fieldwork on the Northern Min dialect spoken > in the village of Chengcun. Two elderly residents of the village had been > schooled in nearby Xingtian Township during the first half of the last > century, where they learned to recite texts in the local reading > pronunciation. I had the opportunity to record both speakers reciting the > San Zi Jing (“Three Character Classic”) and the Bai Jia Xing (“Book of a > Hundred Surnames”) in this nearly forgotten reading style. Transcription and > analysis of these recitations reveals differences with modern colloquial > pronunciation and provides a glimpse into vanishing linguistic and cultural > traditions.” > > Another source has some information on the recitation method. > > www.isp.msu.edu/studiesonasia/s3_v1_n1/3_1_1LiYu.pdf > > “from the very beginning, reading was based on recognizing characters > whose sounds the learner was already familiar with through repeated > listening and recitation.” It also talks about a reason for the memorization > method may be due to the fact that the classics were written in an old style > of the language, which is quite different from the spoken language. > > Would the recitation method, either as an alternative way to receiving > education, or a bridge to learning to read and write, constitute an example > of what you were looking for (deliberate instructional practices that do not > involve reading/writing)? > > Yuan > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:35 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think this speculation is correct, Tony and lets hope someone can help >> us >> know: >> >> "I would bet that they have been used over the centuries as media for >> transmitting culture orally, through stories told by illiterate grown-ups >> to >> children who were not being schooled." >> >> Deliberate instruction is clearly not co-incident with literacy and >> schooling (30+ children to one adult, print mediated). Infants are >> deliberately (if not-so-effectively) instructed by parents. >> >> This is a great example of the belief that to study learning and >> development >> one has to study the history of these forms of change at several different >> scales of time and synchronic scale. >> >> Wow. >> mike >> >> parison between Confucian and Qin cultures is important. >> > >> > Confucius was a conservative reacting agains the "Legalists" (fa jia) >> and >> > others who were more state-oriented, versus Confucius' more traditional >> > orientation to non-State social relations. Qin (Ch'in) was sort of a >> triumph >> > of State consolidation, and in that sense contrary to Confucianism. >> > >> > I guess the Han literati were trying to work out a synthesis of >> Confucian >> > culture with Imperial statism, although I haven't thought about this >> before. >> > >> > Following on my previous post: As I think about this, I realize that my >> > apartment is littered with children's booklets that I picked up in >> Taipei in >> > 1973. These are picture books with stories told in Chinese characters >> paired >> > with zhuyin fuhao phonetic spelling. These appear to be used as much for >> > learning to read as for transmitting the stories. But the stories are >> > familiar stories about virtuous, courageous, and heroic children, as >> well as >> > Aesop's fables type stuff, and the stories that are succinctly invoked >> in >> > (often four-syllable) "cheng-yu" (sayings that invoke familiar stories). >> > Although I see these in written form, I would bet that they have been >> used >> > over the centuries as media for transmitting culture orally, through >> stories >> > told by illiterate grown-ups to children who were not being schooled. >> > >> > I'm speculating here. Does anybody here actually know? >> > >> > >> > On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, mike cole wrote: >> > >> > Dear Colleagues-- I asked my Chinese colleague, huyi, who was visitor >> at >> >> UCSD, the same questions I asked you. In note to him I emphasized that >> >> one >> >> question that >> >> particularly interested me is the relation between the onset of formal >> >> schooling and the invention of writing system and the governmental >> >> structure. Here is his reply. >> >> >> >> Thanks very much David and Tony and Huyi for help in trying to puzzle >> this >> >> out. >> >> A lot of think about. I was not emphasizing the exam issue, but that is >> my >> >> shortcoming because sorting "succeeders" from "failures" goes hand in >> >> glove >> >> with formal education. >> >> >> >> Remembering Martin Luther King. >> >> mike >> >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> >> From: huyi <huyi1910@hotmail.com> >> >> Date: 2010/1/17 >> >> Subject: RE: Purposes and processes of education >> >> To: lchcmike@gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> The formal education in China, what I meant is to some institutes >> >> educating >> >> people, could be dated from Xiang(âÔ) (BC 2000s) at the period of >> >> Shun(Ë´). The time of schooling to governing is from Qin(ÇØ) Dynasty >> (BC >> >> >> >> 200s), after Qin Shi Huang unified The Six Nations in China. >> >> >> >> Hu YI. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 18:33:46 -0800 >> >> >> Subject: Re: Purposes and processes of education >> >> From: lchcmike@gmail.com >> >> To: huyi1910@hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> When did formal education begin in China? How was start of schooling >> >> related >> >> to formation of centralized government and literacy? I know what I sent >> >> was >> >> ignorant. >> >> I am ignorant on this topic!! >> >> Your help is very welcome to me. >> >> Thanks Hu Yi! >> >> mike >> >> >> >> 2010/1/17 huyi <huyi1910@hotmail.com> >> >> >> >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Your example didn't express the changes of Wang Anshi's educational >> >> reform for the examation. The blank-filling of verses were only part of >> >> the >> >> test before his innovation. Acatually, in ancient China, the governer >> >> selected the talents for adminstering the government through various >> >> tests, >> >> such as paper-writing, interviews, etc. At that time, education was >> >> strongly related to the purpose of politics. From the time of Confucius >> >> (BC >> >> 551-479), there were some private-schools for educating people how to >> be a >> >> person in the socioty, especially how to act with other persons. >> >> >> >> I don't know what kind of papers you need for this? tell me more to see >> >> what >> >> I can do for your work. >> >> >> >> Hu Yi. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:04:09 -0800 >> >> >> >> >> Subject: Purposes and processes of education >> >> From: lchcmike@gmail.com >> >> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> >> CC: fffranksong@hotmail.com; huyi1910@hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Can anyone help point me to key resources to understand relation of >> >> schooling practices >> >> to society in ancient China and India? >> >> >> >> Are there any examples of deliberate instructional practices that do >> not >> >> involve reading/writing? >> >> >> >> David K-- It appears that education in China was closely linked to >> >> governmental exam system, so one can read, for example, " Thirdly, so >> far >> >> as >> >> content was concerned, while the earlier examinations laid much stress >> on >> >> the ancient classical texts, the great reformer Wang Anshi (1021 - >> 1086) >> >> advocated an innovation which was much more practical. He changed the >> >> blank-filling of verses into composition about the verse, giving free >> >> reign >> >> to the ability of the candidates. However this was opposed by other >> >> grandees >> >> and did not last for long. >> >> >> >> And we know that the system is at least a couple of thousand year older >> >> than >> >> that. >> >> >> >> Sorry if this appears a naive question. There is a lot of expertise in >> the >> >> list and i need to make a quick study as background for some focused on >> >> modern education and psychology. >> >> >> >> thanks to whomever. >> >> mike >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> ¸ü¶àÈÈÀ±×ÊÑ¶¾¡ÔÚÐÂ°æMSNÊ×Ò³£¡ Á¢¿Ì·ÃÎÊ£¡ <http://cn.msn.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> ËÑË÷±¾Ó¦ÊÇ²ÊÉ«µÄ,¿ìÀ´ÌåÑéÐÂÒ»´úËÑË÷ÒýÇæ-±ØÓ¦,¾«ÃÀÍ¼Æ¬Ã¿Ìì»»Å¶! >> Á¢¼´ÊÔÓÃ£¡ >> >> <http://cn.bing.com/?form=CRMADS> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> xmca mailing list >> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> >> >> >> > Tony Whitson >> > UD School of Education >> > NEWARK DE 19716 >> > >> > twhitson@udel.edu >> > _______________________________ >> > >> > "those who fail to reread >> > are obliged to read the same story everywhere" >> > -- Roland Barthes, S/Z (1970) >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> > > _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca