Re: [xmca] dualism

[Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>]

I wonder if you could offer any hints, Mike. I started 
listening to one of the brain-freaks, and to be honest I got 
bored. Though the production values were good. There is so 
much of this idiocy around. Is there some good people there 
(apart from good ol' Steven Rose)?

I recently reviewed a collection of articles around this 
area ("Psychology's Territories") for "Theory & Psychology," 
covering "both sides" of the debate, which had some 
interesting takes on the question, some great stuff from 
historians of science. But in reading one of the "ruthless 
reductionists" (Wolfgang Prinz), I realized that Vygotsky 
offered us what I think is a good angle for making some kind 
of a bridge to these people that think that consciousness is 
an illusion. I think we should agree with them. But we 
should say,

"Yes, it's an illusion but one which nonetheless allows us 
to survive and prosper (they'll agree with that) and it's an 
illusion which can be studied scientifically (perking up 
their interest). My consciousness is an illusion (well, an 
appearance really, because it is not mistaken), but for me, 
*your* consciousness is real (surprise, interest), and by 
observing your behaviour I can even tell what's in it. But I 
seriously doubt that you will ever figure out what's in it 
by looking at physiology. If it's an illusion, what do you 
expect to find in brain tissue?"

What do you think?
Andy

mike cole wrote:
> Thanks Andy-- Politzer is a very interesting figure in the Vygotskiana 
> world.
>
> If you have not done so, i really recommend the talks at the Danish Conf
> on meaning beyond the brain both for a lot you can agree with and news 
> from interesting folks you have probably not encountered that you might 
> or might agree with. Interesting in all events.
>
> http://www.dpu.dk/site.aspx?p=14668
>
> mike
>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net 
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     A FaceBook friend recently drew my attention to this fascinating
>     commentary on Descartes by the early Marxist Psychologist, George
>     Politzer:
>
>     http://marx.org/archive/politzer/works/1937/descartes-tricentennial.htm
>
>     Andy
>     Martin Packer wrote:
>
>         Can you give some textual evidence for this statement, Michael?
>
>         Martin
>
>
>         On Feb 26, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Michael Glassman wrote:
>
>             Martin, David, Jorge, all
>
>             .But
>             these organizational structures are definitely inside of the
>             head for
>             Vygotsky so there really is no way for him to escape dualism.
>
>
>
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>
>     -- 
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
>     Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov,
>     Ilyenkov $20 ea
>
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--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden http://www.erythrospress.com/
Classics in Activity Theory: Hegel, Leontyev, Meshcheryakov, 
Ilyenkov $20 ea

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