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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
I think all of this is closely related to what Tolman wrote about the division of (specifically human) labor giving rise to conscious action, consciousness, which appears as a special kind of co-knowledge, Steve. Luria theorized mediation in a really interesting way, combining phylogenetic and cultural lines of development in one of the only ways left open to him after about 1934. He was not, i believe, focused on the level of local activities or how these activities are linked to their large socio-cultural context, except in ritual speech. We can't do it all! We can't get it all right. I think he understood this perfectly. mike On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Steve Gabosch <stevegabosch@me.com> wrote: > I picked up my copy of Luria's The Working Brain (1973) and discovered I'd > already underlined some of the answers to my question! What is new is I > have been recently acquiring a much clearer idea of Vygotsky's concept of > the double stimulated neural connection - one stimuli emanating from an > object, the other from a sign - and now have that concept to work with. I > can read and remember with much more clarity when I have a compelling set of > questions to ask and comparisons to make, and Vygotsky's theory of the > higher mental functions gives me some really good ones. > > Luria built his work on this very concept, explaining it very nicely on > page 245-247 in a discussion of voluntary movement. He describes the > mechanistic approaches to this in the past and says "A radical change was > necessary to the basic idea of voluntary movement and action, in order to > preserve the distinctive feature of these higher conscious forms of > activity, but at the same time to make them accessible to truly scientific, > deterministic analysis. The first step in this direction was taken by > Vygotsky (1956; 1960), who introduced into psychology the concept that the > source of voluntary movement and action lies, not within the organism, not > in the direct influence of past experience, but in man's social history ..." > p246 > > Luria then, as he can do so well, offers a succinct description of > Vygotsky's concept of the social origins of the higher functions, and closes > with "the function previously shared between two persons became a method of > organization of the higher forms of active behavior which are social in > origin ..." p247 > > Earlier he had explained another aspect. "The higher forms of mental > processes have a particularly complex structure; they are laid down during > ontogeny. Initially they consist of a complete, expanded series of > manipulative movement which gradually have become condensed and have > acquired the character of inner 'mental actions' (Vygotsky, 1956; 1960; > Galperin, 1959)." p30 And then, referring to external signs such as written > words, "it becomes perfectly clear that these external aids or historically > formed devices are essential elements in the establishment of functional > connections between individual parts of the brain, and that by their aid, > areas of the brain which previously were independent become the components > of a single functional system. This can be expressed more vividly by saying > that historically formed measures for the organization of human behavior tie > new knots in the activity of man's brain ..." p31. > > And here, Luria, the eminent cultural-historical psychologist, shows how > the higher mental functions are formed not as a separate organ, but in > activity itself. And that is the key. > > What I like about Vygotsky's two-stimuli model is it gives me a picture of > 1) a biological process (a neural connection) and 2) the sensing of an > object being transformed by 3) a cultural-historical and social process, > creating 4) something new, a unique human action. Or, more likely, a series > of such 1-2-3 connections swarming together competing to get out a narrow > door (one of Vygotsky's metaphors), reflecting a struggle of possibilities > within the person that exist without. And then will plays its role, making > choices among these possibilities - or deciding to "flip a coin" when it is > a "toss up." Or something like that. I am looking forward to learning more > from Luria, and am very happy to see how much he continued to work with > Vygotsky's ideas in his work in neuropsychology. > > And of course, there are numerous other themes that Vygotsky and Luria > touched on in the late '20's and early '30's that this book elaborates - > localization, functional systems, etc. I can now see the continuity. What > other books and articles exist that can help a person study this material? > And who are some other researchers that worked on these aspects people > recommend? > > - Steve > > > > On Jul 30, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Steve Gabosch wrote: > > So - what were Luria's views on Vygotsky's concept of the >> double-stimulated or mediated neural connection - a stimulus-object and >> stimulus-sign forming a single connection unique to humans, a restructuring >> of the usual direct S-R connection? Did Luria pursue that concept? Who >> has? This strikes me as a possible bridge between neuropsychology and >> cultural, developmental, and cross-cultural psychology. Vol 4 is giving me >> a whole new set of questions to ask. Will relisten to the DVD ... >> >> - Steve >> >> >> On Jul 29, 2010, at 4:37 PM, mike cole wrote: >> >> Should be really interesting read, ulvi. >>> My own view is that Luria's legacy is far broader than encompassed in >>> neuropsychology, but his work in neuropsychology is generally not of >>> interest in communities that take a great interest in his developmental >>> and >>> cross-cultural work. >>> >>> mike >>> ( The DVD that goes along with the newer edition of ARL's autobiography >>> has >>> a discussion between Bruner and Saxe about him >>> that a least makes the connection between his work as a neuropsychologist >>> and his research in Central Asia possible to glean) >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:24 AM, ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Luria's legacy.... >>>> >>>> http://www.borders.com/online/store/TitleDetail?sku=0195176707 >>>> >>>> http://www.elkhonongoldberg.com/books/ >>>> >>>> I was planning to read The New Executive Brain. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2010/7/29, Monica Hansen <monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu>: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> What was it you were reading by Goldberg? Can you make a recommendation >>>>> >>>> of >>>> >>>>> a >>>>> particular article? I was just reading The New Executive Brain. This >>>>> book >>>>> Larry suggests looks interesting, too. >>>>> >>>>> Monica >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] >>>>> >>>> On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of ulvi icil >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 11:29 AM >>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity >>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Fwd: Private Speech and Self Regulatiion >>>>> >>>>> Incredible coincidence ! at a moment I was just reading Goldberg on >>>>> Luria >>>>> just after I was proposed on the relationship of Vygotsky and Luria >>>>> with >>>>> executive functions by my last semestr educational neurology professor >>>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>>> after having communicated with Bella yesterday. >>>>> Any additional comment and advice, highly appreciated and warmly >>>>> >>>> welcome! >>>> >>>>> Thanks in advance >>>>> Ulvi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2010/7/28, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> I thought this book review from TCRECORD may be of interest. On the >>>>>> >>>>> topic >>>> >>>>> of >>>>>> private speech and executive functioning >>>>>> Larry >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: <no-reply@tcrecord.org> >>>>>> Date: Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:20 AM >>>>>> Subject: Private Speech and Self Regulatiion >>>>>> To: lpscholar2@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Larry Purss (lpurss@vsb.bc.ca) has sent you this article from >>>>>> TCRecord >>>>>> >>>>> ( >>>> >>>>> http://www.tcrecord.org) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Private Speech, Executive Functioning, and the Development of Verbal >>>>>> Self-Regulation >>>>>> >>>>>> by Debra Myhill >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> For the full article, visit >>>>>> http://www.tcrecord.org/Content.asp?ContentId=16067 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> xmca mailing list >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> > > _______________________________________________ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca