These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
Larry-- In an indirect sense, LSV and Mead have been in dialogue for a long time through a common interlouctor. Mead got his PhD with Dilthey who was an important "other" in LSV"s intellectual firmament. Certainly worth pursuing more deeply. mike On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Elina > I support Mike's recommendation that you look at articles by Alex Gillespie > and Jack Martin on neo-Meadian approaches to reflexivity and > self-consciousness. The CENTRAL concept in their theoretical approach is > reflexivity or "perspective taking" which in Meadian approaches is much more > inclusive than "cognition or thinking". Reflexivity is a concept which > elaborates "ORIENTATION to life worlds" and EMERGES [is not essential or > innate] within social ACTS [with OTHER persons]. As Mike points out Mead's > approach has many similarities with cultural-historical theory. > You can find many articles by Gillespie at his website at Stirling > University where he has a long list of articles posted. > > By engaging with Martin's and Gillespie's writings you will be introduced > to alternative models of reflexivity and self-consciousness as they > articulate how they believe their theoretical approach adds something new > to modelsof the emergence of reflexivity within layers [NOT STAGES] of > historical development. > Your topic is also a central and guiding question for how I orient to the > world. I LOVE to attempt to juxtapose Vygotsky and Mead as two approaches, > which in CONVERSATION have the capacity to FORM new PERSPECTIVES on the > centrality of reflexivity to the emergence of self-consciousness whithin > social ACTS. > > Larry > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 7:42 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Nice to have company in a state of questioning, Elina. >> (It was not me who linked "reflexia" to metacognition, it was grad >> students >> at MGU!) :-) >> >> About function. >> Here I would not look to Vygotsky, but to Anokhin and Luria. But then >> Luria >> learned a lot from Vygotsky, so who knows. Still, they discuss functions >> and functional systems and the idea comes alive in their examples and >> their >> work. Perhaps wrongly. i am not sure. Did you and >> Seth get into their work? >> >> I think it might be useful here to consider the work of Martin and >> Gillespie >> that Larry pointed at, and in general, "neo-Median" ideas, for the >> development of samo-so-znanie (self-conjointly with-knowledge). Znanie is >> a >> noun, so maybe reflexivity could be connected with the process, not the >> product? Not at all sure. And what would it mean for them to be completely >> separated? (Or to be able to specify the specifics of their >> inter-connectedness!!) >> mike >> mike >> >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Elina Lampert-Shepel >> >> <ellampert@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> > Mike - >> > I can relate to a LOT of trouble. Both notions are used in many >> different >> > ways in the contexts of development and learning. A few weeks ago, >> during >> > Vygotsky Summer School, Gennadiy Kravtsov and I had a long conversation >> > about my cross-cultural research on reflection or as you say "reflexia". >> He >> > talked about reflection/reflexivity in the context of >> "self-consciousness" >> > and we discussed reflexivity as a condition for the development of >> > self-consciousness. He believes that the notion of "self-consciousness" >> ( >> > that I distinguish from reflexivity) was never developed fully in >> > cultural-historical tradition. Knowing that there is still lack of >> bridge >> > between Russian and the rest of the world cultural-historical research, >> I >> > wanted to learn whether there are studies that connect reflection ( >> > "reflexia") and self-consciousness. It is interesting that you mentioned >> > both "reflexia" and "self-consciousness' in the context of >> meta-cognition. >> > It seems to me that learning activity theory conceptualized reflection >> as a >> > metacognitive process, although Vygotsky never discussed it as a >> cognitive, >> > or metacognitive process. There is also an important language >> difference, >> > Russian language doesn't have an everyday use of the word reflection, it >> > only exists as a philosophical or psychological notion. >> > >> > Part of this conversation was discussion of the nature of higher >> > psychological functions. I am still puzzled with what Vygotsky meant by >> > function ( Seth Chaiklin and I posed this question in 2002 and as we >> > discussed recently and are still looking for an answer...:-), but >> Gennadi >> > and I believe that reflection and will are not higher psychological >> > functions. We are in the process of developing a proposal for the ISCAR >> > symposium on these issues. >> > >> > In any case, I was just wondering if there are studies on the >> development >> > of self-consciousness and/or reflexivity that are not necessarily rooted >> in >> > Russian philosophical thought. >> > >> > As you can see, I am in the state of questioning, so directions for >> further >> > questioning will be highly appreciated. >> > >> > Elina >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 7:49 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Elina-- >> >> >> >> I spent a great many sessions with Russian grad students who were >> >> interested >> >> in this issue. We had a LOT of trouble with the fact that there seem to >> be >> >> a >> >> whole lot of words that appear to refer in overlapping ways with >> >> "self-consciousness." Terms in the family of reflectivity, reflexivity >> >> came >> >> up a lot among the Russian students, but they were trying hard to >> figure >> >> out >> >> what the right English words were for whatever Russian term was being >> >> used. >> >> Not just "samo-soznanie" was used in their conversations as well, with >> >> meta-cognition slipping in along with "reflexia." >> >> >> >> I am unsure what to suggest. What is occasion for the question? >> >> mike >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Elina >> >> > >> >> > I wanted to express my appreciation of the quote you sign off with by >> >> > Tagore. It captures the central imperative of foregrounding >> context >> >> and >> >> > traditions in the emergence of self-consciousness [the string] BUT >> that >> >> > without the string there is no violin. >> >> > I find myself often reflecting on the implications this perspective >> >> > elaborates. >> >> > >> >> > One suggestion I would like to suggest on the emergence of >> >> > self-consciousness is Andy's vimeo podcast on the Historical roots of >> >> > cultural-historical theory. [Hegel is central] >> >> > >> >> > Larry >> >> > On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Elina Lampert-Shepel >> >> > <ellampert@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> > >> >> > > Hi, everyone, >> >> > > I would appreciate if anyone can recommend publications on >> >> > > self-consciousness in cultural-historical tradition. I am >> interested >> >> in >> >> > any >> >> > > references on this issue. >> >> > > Thanks in advance, >> >> > > Elina >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > I have on my table a violin string. It is free. I twist one end of >> it >> >> and >> >> > > it >> >> > > responds. It is free. But it's not free to do what a violin string >> is >> >> > > supposed to do - to produce music. So I take it, fix it in my >> violin >> >> and >> >> > > tighten it until it is taut. Only then is it free to be a violin >> >> string. >> >> > > -Sir Rabindranath Tagore >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > xmca mailing list >> >> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> > > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > xmca mailing list >> >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> xmca mailing list >> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > I have on my table a violin string. It is free. I twist one end of it >> and >> > it responds. It is free. But it's not free to do what a violin string is >> > supposed to do - to produce music. So I take it, fix it in my violin and >> > tighten it until it is taut. Only then is it free to be a violin string. >> > -Sir Rabindranath Tagore >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> > > _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca