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007 ain't got nuthin' on the cole <------->john-steiner overt/covert continuum timescale ;-.> eric From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> To: Vera John-Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> Date: 09/29/2010 02:19 PM Subject: Re: [xmca] ideology: easy access web page Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu To me representation corresponds to doodling! (overt and covert!!) :-) On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Vera John-Steiner <vygotsky@unm.edu>wrote: > Hi, > To me representation corresponds to brain activity, which is essential to > both overt and covert processes human engage in. > Vera > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net> > Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> > Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 7:21 PM > Subject: Re: [xmca] ideology: easy access web page> > > Well these pragraphs are interesting, but my only problem for having a >> CHAT concept of ideology is that the writer takes *representation *as the >> most fundamental category, and defines other concepts in terms of >> representation. But in CHAT, representation is not the fundamental category, >> which would rather be *activity*. And it is hardly a big struggle to define >> *institutions *in terms of activity. The problem is more how to conceive of >> representation in terms of activity. And I think there are very good reasons >> to have activity as a fundamental category and representation as a >> derivative concept. >> >> Andy >> >> Larry Purss wrote: >> >>> Hi Andy & others >>> >>> You mentioned that ideology is institutionalized consciousness, or that >>> institutionalization is inherently an aspect of consciousness and each >>> are >>> inseparable from one another. >>> >>> I'm wondering if this framing of ideology can be linked to notions of >>> "social representations" Mike recommended the book "knowledge in Context >>> by >>> Sandra Jovchelovich and her definition of SOCIAL representations [in >>> contrast to cognitive notions of representation] seems to parallel the >>> discussion of ideology. >>> Her definition of representation: >>> >>> To represent is to make present what is actually absent, through the use >>> of >>> symbols... Representation is at the basis of the construction of >>> languages, >>> and the acquisition of speech, and is crucial to establishing the >>> interrelations that constitute the social order and is the material >>> through >>> which cultures form and are transformed across time [history] and space." >>> >>> She further writes >>> Representation is the basis of inclusion and exclusion - who is and who >>> is >>> not represented and underlies the very core of the knowledge of ourselves >>> and the world. Very few representations reach verity [a true depiction of >>> the world]. Even when there is a high level of consensus within he >>> culture, >>> there is always some dissent from others proposing alternative >>> representations. What constitutes truth and reality is informed by >>> representations which are always precarious and unstable.... Much of the >>> tension and disputes over representations can be explained by an >>> underlying >>> tendency to focus solely on its epistemic function [the ability of >>> representation to produce knowledge ABOUT the world] There is a strong >>> tendency to equate the epistemic function of representation with >>> cognition >>> and to ERASE from the representational process its connection with >>> persons >>> and contexts. When this happens, representation is reduced to a mental >>> epistemic phenomenon, ruled by information processing functions >>> [mechanisms] >>> that cognitive models call "mind".... The MULTIDIMENSIONAL aspects of >>> representation, which are clearly visible in its social psychological >>> GENESIS and social foundations are RENDERED INVISIBLE. >>> >>> Ideology and "social representations" as concepts seem to share similar >>> roots. >>> >>> Larry >>> >>> It was good to see that a German speaker read this passage the same way I >>> have, because there are multiple translations of the passage. But if we >>> take >>> the line that ideology is institutionalised consciousness, or that >>> institutionalisation is inherently an aspect of consciousness and each >>> are >>> inseparable from one another in general, then this problematic concept of >>> "false consciousness" disappears. It is simply a matter of the practical >>> critique of forms of social practice, of what deserves to be defended and >>> what should be brought down. >>> Andy <Andy@mira.net> >>> >>> mike cole wrote: >>> >>> >>> Once Lucas set me off looking at that interesting webpage of Teun van >>>> >>>> Dijk, >>>>> I realized that an inquiry >>>>> into people's uses of the term, ideology, could take us ANYWHERE. So, >>>>> thinking of anywhere, I thought in >>>>> particular of Raymond Williams' KEYWORD which is on my home bookshelf, >>>>> and >>>>> sure enough, the entry there >>>>> on ideology was interesting. >>>>> >>>>> Then I wondered if there was a web version so I could add that to the >>>>> discussion in an easy-to-access way and, >>>>> voila, as they say, I came up with the following; >>>>> >>>>> http://www.autodidactproject.org/other/ideo8.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> mike >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> *Andy Blunden* >>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/ > >>>> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos >>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> xmca mailing list >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> >> Videos: http://vimeo.com/user3478333/videos >> Book: http://www.brill.nl/scss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> > _______________________________________________ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca _______________________________________________ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca