Re: [xmca] spontaneous concepts indeed

[Joanne Hyatt <jody.hyatt@gmail.com>]

Apologies to Michael and thanks to Peter. Don't have my online protocols
down yet!
Jody

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu> wrote:

> Mike's paper is:
>        Cole, M. (1993, March/April). Vygotsky and writing: Reflections from
> a distant discipline. Paper presented at the annual convention of the
> Conference on College Composition and Communication, San Diego. Retrieved
> February 13, 2011 from
> http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/contentdelivery/servlet/ERICServlet?accno=ED360627
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Joanne Hyatt
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 1:16 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] spontaneous concepts indeed
>
> I wanted to come at the issue Anthony raises, 'scientific concepts during
> one's everyday "alone time", from the other side: Vygotsky's conception of
> formal schooling and positioning of scientific concepts within it. Michael
> Cole writes in a paper about composition that he presented in 93 concerning
> Vygotsky's ideas of formal schooling:
>  "In proposing these developmental patterns, Vygotsky had in mind the
> cultural circumstances of the kind that he considered normal and ideal for
> his own time and  place, circumstances in which children began attending
> school at the age of 6-7 to undergo deliberate instruction in a manner that
> mediated their learning through the writing systems. He believed that
> instruction is central to the productive inclusion in children's thought
> processes of the scientific concepts that underpin the school curriculum.
> The role of writing in the ontogeny of this stage-transformation, vis a vis
> schooling, is currently widely debated."
> I'm not familiar with the wide debate he refers to regarding writing, but
> as
> far as instruction or pedagogy in formal schooling goes, I would argue that
> it is being widely debated as well. If instructional method is being widely
> debated and is shifting away from the 'deliberate instruction' Michael
> mentions, might not that weaken Vygotsky's resolve that scientific subjects
> must be taught in school. The suggestions regarding possibilities for
> learning in an unschooling environment, possible changing pedagogies in
> 'formal' schooling, as well as the scenerios Anthony suggest all lead me to
> question how clear a distinction there is between scientific and everyday
> concepts.
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Temple <tub80742@temple.edu> wrote:
>
> > I realize some time's gone by, but the question Jody's (Joanne's) post
> from
> > last week raises for me is this:
> >
> > Can scientific concepts develop in non-structured learning settings?  I
> > mean those other than schooling, team play, church, work, etc.  How about
> > from being online a lot - just surfing, playing games, or reading blogs -
> or
> > from spending one's time at the library or bookstore alone?
> >
> > It seems to me that such scenarios blur the lines between spontaneous and
> > scientific situations, so to speak.  That is, they are natural, everyday
> > activities that lend themselves to repetition and reflective thinking and
> > naming, where the structure of the activity itself (as opposed to a more
> > experienced mentor) spurs on one's reflection, generalization, and
> > "scientification" of knowledge.
> >
> > The following statement from Jody's (post sent my thoughts in this
> > direction:
> > > In home schooling described by Holt, certain scientific concepts could
> be
> > learned by a child at home, driven by their loves and needs.
> >
> > Could someone point me specifically towards a richer discussion of the
> > development of scientific concepts during one's everyday "alone time"?
> >
> > Thx,
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Apr 22, 2011, at 7:32 AM, Joanne Hyatt <jody.hyatt@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I'm only a grad student, but I'll risk a spontaneous response.
> > >
> > > In 1991 I had no background in education other than my own experiences.
> > > However, compelled by circumstance, I home schooled my fourth grader.
> My
> > > main thought at the time was, "Even if he only reads at home for a
> year,
> > > he'll be better off than attending the school he is destined to be
> bussed
> > > to." My pedagogy was inspired by John Holt's magazine "Unschooling", a
> > > publication edited by Holt and filled with inspiring stories from
> > families
> > > following Holt's theories.
> > >
> > > I loved overseeing school at home, and my son and later my daughter
> > thrived
> > > there. However, try as I might, it was exceptionally hard to shift or
> > impact
> > > the approach my children took to schooling. They were already
> hopelessly
> > > brainwashed by their few years of traditional schooling. While I hoped
> > > they'd want to build a ham radio and communicate with 10-year-olds in
> > > Australia, they'd see a workbook in the supermarket and ask me to buy
> it
> > for
> > > them. Also, years later, when I became a 4th grade teacher, I found it
> > > impossible to create at school the environment I strove to create in my
> > > home.
> > >
> > > Clark Aldrich, in the link Peter supplied, is a breath of fresh air, a
> > more
> > > modern and insightful 'Holt'. He is spot on in his diagnosis of
> > traditional
> > > schooling's failings and offers compelling reasons try a new approach
> at
> > > home. However, to unschool properly, in my opinion, required a
> tremendous
> > > amount of work on the part of parents. Today, in my community, more and
> > more
> > > parents are choosing to home school, mostly out of desperation and
> > > frustration with the school systems, but they lack the time and energy
> to
> > > follow up on Aldrich's compelling implications of what might compromise
> > > unschooling.
> > >
> > > I just finished reading Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech. Admittedly a
> > novice,
> > > as I read, I kept looking for more references to a child's learning
> from
> > > their own experiences. Vygotsky's notion of scientific and everyday
> > concepts
> > > seemed defined more by an instructional pedagogy than by content. He
> > seemed
> > > to discount the idea that a child could develop an interest and pursue
> it
> > > successfully on their own.  He refers to formal schooling, as he knows
> > it,
> > > as a given, an unchanging institution, and the trick is to figure out
> how
> > > children are developing there. The concept that many children might
> learn
> > > outside of such an institution in different ways was absent.  "Schools
> > are
> > > teaching too many children too many things that don't excite them and
> > have
> > > no relevance to what they need or love... says Aldrich." In home
> > schooling
> > > described by Holt, certain scientific concepts could be learned by a
> > child
> > > at home, driven by their loves and needs.
> > >
> > > It seems that today we are trying to reinvent the institution of formal
> > > schooling; how would that affect both Vygotsky's teacher or expert in
> the
> > > ZPD as well as his distinction between scientific and everyday
> concepts?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 6:04 AM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> http://blogs.ajc.com/get-schooled-blog/2011/04/22/unschooling-homeschooling-
> > >> without-the-school/?cxntfid=blogs_get_schooled_blog
> > >>
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