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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes, and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving. Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards. If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site, please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
Andy, [[you ask if it is what we "make" of an experience that is determinative if it is "vital". I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than "make" is central to exploring "vital experience". Making is one particular approach to engaging vital experience. This is a vital experience that transforms the individual person's orientation within the world. This is an agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision. I would like to suggest this is one particular way to intergrate "vital experience in our proceeding along pathways. I would even suggest this may be the particular way forward that is biased as an approach within modernity as an ethical way of life. >From this perspective "vital experience" can be personally "undergone" and through struggle and courageously exploring of personal inscapes the person can change direction and "make" something different of their lives [develop] ]] Dear all This is part of a message by dear Larry . I've been to this forum for long . i get confused reading the passage . i ask myself where the reason lies . one reason might be my ignorance . but that's not all to it . one thing i think about is we do not take into account the politics of the time . i don't say this should be a political forumn ; no , but if politics says who governs , who is governed by , then everything differs . On the whole , we reached a conclusion that Vygotsky has , at least , a half-glance at Marxism . The other seven of his disciples , too . Activity Theory has its roots in Marxism . My experience tells me when discussions approach a concrete stance , even our weaker ones could make a sense of the discussion . Four of our dears I can name as exemplars are : Mike , Andy , Martin , David . Let's follow their suit . I should be forgiven if I claim I curse this word "any" . In two articles , Andy Blunden and Peter Jones , long ago , discussed that by "work" , they didn't mean "any" "work" . They and Marx meant "valorization" Process ; the work which creates "value" . It's that "value" --surplus--which is appropriated by capitalists . Our friends say Freire talks about oppression in education but one cannot get the idea how this oppression could be eliminated . Within capitalism or outside of it ? and if outside of it , how and by what means ? Being at it , one good researcher Julian Williams , using the content of Lave and McDermott's article of 2002 , had her debate on comparing Labour alianation and educational education . This good Lady referred us to a response Peter Jones had had to her article . Everybody were silent about this important matter . [[I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than "make" is central to exploring "vital experience".]] If I claim that I want to go further than "individual" or "persoanl" , what could be my today's "vital experience" ? I'm wrong if I say ? : the recession in the capitalist world , the hasty William Hague who wants to put an end to every bitter taste in the impoverished , oppressed , backward Middle East so that His treasury might not get exausted sooner and earlier than predicted and to this end even people's lives are not important for Him , the Air Bombardments of the Evil Nato , the natural and social mishaps quite afresh to the mouths of our noble westerners ? Then where do you want to participate ? and in what ? did you join the demonstrations in the American streets for the quite genuine serious class differentiations / exploitation ? Here people are killed when they demonstrate but that's not for you there . [[This is a vital experience that transforms the individual person's orientation within the world.]] I think and you know for certain that this is not the "any" individual who is orientated within the world . It is , you say more emphatically than I do , the COLLECTIVIZED individual person , all along with His co-partners of the same rank and class , who are orientated and then are destined to enter battling with the not yet transformed ?? world of oppression , genocide , slaughter and cruelty . An individual does not sleep one especial night and does not awake the next day with social justice at her bosom . Transformations WITHIN requires a calling on the WITHOUT . How is it that a new-born needs socialization but adults could live on her own , agentively as you say or at most with the dead experiences internalized and , true , if vital , ones need be , where should we be orientated / stationed so that "vitality" could be secured and gauranteed ? [[This is an agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision.]] I seek your forgiveness if I say this yet smacks of a "gone with the wind only not to return" world of capitalistic struggle against feudalism , fraternity , equality and ... . This means "individual" decision not "personal" decision in the sense of Vygotsky and Leontyev's "SENSE" . I remember Leontyev somewhere saying : an instinct of hunger just raises the animal to its feet , the rest remains for her to orientate within the surrounding and environment . you need a decent life ; then in the social milieu , the environment , the objective field , the object world , many things are located and contiguous . You have to choose one / some to satisfy your need . That thing or things becomes/become the "motive" of the activity you're going to fulfill . You've , then , gone to a world of decision making , agency as you remind us of . An exploiter seeks an instrument of murder ; an exploited seeks a means of emancipation . For the explited , the general social meaning of "any" and "every" equality in the AIR has been vanished . might continue ... All the best Haydi ________________________________ From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> Sent: Thursday, 6 October 2011, 16:25:49 Subject: [xmca] adverbial qualified movement, action, being The discussion of vivencia has me pondering The turn to discussing "vital experience" or being as qualified being [not qualia] seems to be an opening with potential and possibility. Andy, you ask if it is what we "make" of an experience that is determinative if it is "vital". I would suggest that the term how we "participate" rather than "make" is central to exploring "vital experience". Making is one particular approach to engaging vital experience. This is a vital experience that transforms the individual person's orientation within the world. This is an agentive response that has the quality of being a "personal" decision. I would like to suggest this is one particular way to intergrate "vital experience in our proceeding along pathways. I would even suggest this may be the particular way forward that is biased as an approach within modernity as an ethical way of life. >From this perspective "vital experience" can be personally "undergone" and through struggle and courageously exploring of personal inscapes the person can change direction and "make" something different of their lives [develop] However, alternatively, the person could possibly be "met" [alterity] and in this "I-YOU" meeting "vital experience" is transformed and new pathways open. I wonder if this alternative way of engaging "vital experience" is through "witnessing" [as I explored recently] This is another way of engaging "vital experience" that does not emphasize the personal courageous aspect of transformation [as making] but rather points to "being met" within the "vital experience". I've contrasted and made distinct two possible openings of development [transformation or in*formation] One emphasing a journey through inscapes, the other through intersubjective "holding environments". In actuality there may be multiple flow-forms and interweavings of these multiple strands of "vital experience" What I'm pointing to is our socio-cultural biases in modernity to validate the "inscapes" as legitimate [good] pathways of transformation while invalidating the inter-subjective witnessing pathways to transformation. [as dependency and defended against] In other words we don't really "trust" the other will actually respond to the calling of "vial experience". Andy, I grant that after being "met" [which I believe may be developmental in its own movement] there follow other phases or levels of transformation that bring us back to "spaces of reason" "propositional language games" "agentive stances of *making* ones way in the world", etc. This becomes a cultural-historical narrative of projects and objects and activity. I also grant "meeting" as I'm discussing it is "normative" and an ethical stance towards alterity [including one's own alterity]. However as a particular form of participation it may have as much validity and legitimacy as the moe courageous form of turning towards inscapes for transormation. Larry __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca