These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
Content on this site may not meet current digital accessibility standards.
If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
please contact Bruce Jones, bjones@ucsd.edu to request an accommodation.
That is a fascinating text, Andy. but both the terms activity and operation appear to wobble in their usages/meaning over the course of the text. Its a really interesting question. In in beginning was the dead as an underlying assumption that carries a lot with it! mike On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 9:02 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote: > That's great Andy. thanks. > Is this what you were referring to, Manfred? > mike > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 8:56 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > >> Mike, I attach pp 154-180 from A N Leontyev's "Development of Mind" where >> he introduces the concept of "operation" as part of a "second stage of >> evolution of the psyche". >> >> Full text at http://www.erythrospress.com/**store/leontyev.html<http://www.erythrospress.com/store/leontyev.html> >> >> Andy >> >> mike cole wrote: >> >>> Yes, thanks Andy: OPERATIONS are something like automated actions, >>> subject to conditions not goals. >>> mike >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 8:39 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto: >>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: >>> >>> "operations", you mean. >>> a >>> mike cole wrote: >>> >>> What is your understanding of this issue, Manfred. In the text >>> most used by Americans, *actions* >>> are something like automated actions, subject to condions not >>> goals. Components of actions. >>> >>> What does it mean, ontogenetically, for operations to preceed >>> actions? How does this relate to the classic Leontiev >>> formulation? >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 6:28 PM, Andy Blunden >>> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> >>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote: >>> >>> Michael, here is what Manfred said in his message: >>> >>> "A young infant has not already established a >>> goal-driven level of >>> actions. In the first weeks one can observe the >>> acquisition of >>> first >>> operations and of first expectations what should >>> happen. But these >>> expectations are not yet represented as a mental image >>> about the >>> desired future states. This is the product of the >>> acquisition of a >>> sign system which enables the person to evoke and >>> imagine a future >>> state in the here and now and to start to strive for >>> it. And for >>> this starting point, not only to imagine different >>> future states, >>> but also to select one of them and to start to strive >>> for it, >>> emotional processes come into play that color one of >>> the imagined >>> future state e.g. in a state worth striving for and >>> that mobilize >>> the executive power to start striving for it. However, >>> the ability >>> to form such notions of goals and to transform them >>> into actions is >>> not something that occurs automatically. It emerges in >>> a long-drawn >>> ontogenetic learning process in which the attainment of >>> goals >>> through actions is tried, tested, and increasingly >>> optimized." >>> I make no claim to be a psychologist, Michael, but it always >>> seemed to me that ascribing a knowledge of the world to >>> neonates >>> would be a hard position to sustain. We have to find some >>> other >>> way of understanding the behaviour of neonates and infants >>> other >>> than presuming that they form a goal and then take >>> appropriate >>> premeditated action to realise that goal. >>> >>> An "operation" is a form of behaviour which has the >>> potential to >>> be transformed into an action, that is, for the subject to >>> become >>> consciously aware of the behaviour and subject it to >>> conscious >>> control. So at first I think we have to say that the neonate >>> smiles, moves its hands around, pouts, squeezes, etc, etc., >>> without first forming the idea "I think I will smile at this >>> woman, and she might give me some more food" or any such >>> thing. >>> But after the relevant stimuli have been repeatedly >>> accompanied by >>> the various kinds of responses which adult carers provide >>> to the >>> child and the successful satisfaction of the stimuli, the >>> child >>> might begin to associate the behaviour with an object, >>> accomodate >>> its behaviour to the social world around them, and what >>> began as >>> an operation may be transformed into an action. Otherwise, >>> I think >>> we are imply a hell of a lot about innate knowledge! >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> Glassman, Michael wrote: >>> >>> .... But I also I think disagree with Andy to some >>> extent. Do >>> infants simply engage in operations? Is that >>> possible? Isn't >>> there an action tied to every operation, or else why >>> is the >>> infant doing it. I think infants definitely do react to >>> stimuli (feedback I think can be define through >>> information >>> processing but it can also perhaps be defined through >>> social >>> cognitive theory which is more behavior oriented). >>> But when >>> they react don't they have an aim of some type? It >>> might be >>> very rudimentary but it is an aim and the child is >>> developing >>> operations to meet those aims (it also seems to me >>> that there >>> are much fuzzier boundaries between operations and >>> actions at >>> this point). >>> >>> >>> ______________________________**____________ >>> _____ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> >>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- ------------------------------** >>> ------------------------------**------------ >>> *Andy Blunden* >>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ < >>> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**> >>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts >>> http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden> >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> ------------------------------**------------------------------** >> ------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ >> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts >> http://marxists.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden> >> >> __________________________________________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca