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These files are maintained strictly for historical reference, research, and recordkeeping purposes,
and the content has not been altered or updated since archiving.
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If you require an alternative, accessible format of any information found on this site,
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*From the OED: * * * *Pivot ...A short shaft or pin, usually of metal and pointed, forming the centre on which a mechanism turns or oscillates, as the pin of a hinge, or the end of an axle...* *Fulcrum: A prop or support; now only spec. in Mech. the point against which a lever is placed to get purchase or upon which it turns or is supported.* ** *What an interesting pair of terms, especially in the context of your interests, Beth.* * * On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote: > On 9 April 2013 15:40, Bella Kotik-Friedgut <bella.kotik@gmail.com> wrote: > > > fulcrum seems OK > > > > > Are you translating the paragraph or the term/word? > > The English text is using pivot in about three different ways in relation > to the paragraph and the paragraph's object. > > Fulcrum does not capture this because it does not connote the prizing of > the idea of the horse away from the horse itself, which one can do with a > stick (as a lever or crowbar). > > Best, > Huw > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 3:11 PM, Christine Schweighart < > > schweighartc@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I can't read Russian, I'm guessing you are looking to express a meaning > > > something like 'fulcrum' - not the lever or pivot itself as a thing. > > > http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fulcrum > > > Christine > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Bella Kotik-Friedgut < > > > bella.kotik@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > As I mentioned he does NOT use this term rather he writes: > > > > "В тот момент, когда палочка, т.е. вещь, становится опорной точкой > для > > > > отрывания значения лошади от реальной лошади, в этот критический > момент > > > > коренным образом меняется одна из основных психологических структур, > > > > определяющая отношение ребенка к действительности". > > > > опорная точка- > > > > literally: a point of support > > > > Bella > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 11:48 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > This is all very helpful, thank you: > > > > > > > > > > Is стимул-средство what Vygotsky uses in the following paragraph > from > > > the > > > > > chapter on play, or another word, and is стимул-средство is best > > > > translated > > > > > as a type of tool? Which type -- ? > > > > > > > > > > "Thought is separated from objects because a piece of wood begins > to > > > be a > > > > > doll and a stick becomes a horse. Action according to rules begins > to > > > be > > > > > determined by ideas, not by objects. This is such a reversal of the > > > > child's > > > > > relationship to the real, immediate, concrete situation that it is > > hard > > > > to > > > > > evaluate its full significance. The child does not do this all at > > once. > > > > It > > > > > is terribly difficult for a child to sever thought (the meaning of > a > > > > word) > > > > > from object. Play is a transitional stage in this direction. At > that > > > > > critical moment when a stick - i.e., an object - becomes a pivot > for > > > > > severing the meaning of horse from a real horse, one of the basic > > > > > psychological structures determining the child's relationship to > > > reality > > > > is > > > > > radically altered." > > > > > > > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Bella Kotik-Friedgut < > > > > > bella.kotik@gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In the original paper on play I have not found a special term for > > it, > > > > but > > > > > > in further developments it seems that стимул-средство would be a > > > proper > > > > > > term > > > > > > Bella > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:38 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yo!! > > > > > > > Would one of our Russian colleagues who can put their hands on > > the > > > > > > Russian > > > > > > > essay please tell us what the russian word for pivot Vygotsky > > uses? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Ana Marjanovic-Shane < > > > > > > anamshane@gmail.com > > > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Beth and Monica, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that you should see how would you call a knife and > two > > > > > glasses > > > > > > > > that two engineer friend may use over a dinner to talk about > a > > > new > > > > > > bridge > > > > > > > > they are planning to build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are the knife and the glasses "carriers", "pivots", "place > > > holders" > > > > > or > > > > > > > > something else? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like to think of them as "pivots" (for meaning) because > they > > do > > > > not > > > > > > > > CARRY meanings, for which they are used for in this > > conversation. > > > > In > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > words, I don't think these objects are used metaphorically. > In > > > > > > metaphor, > > > > > > > > you mean to say something ABOUT an object (person, event, > > > concept, > > > > > > etc.) > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > calling it a different name. > > > > > > > > "My pillow is my spaceship" -- If I said that to you, imagine > > > what > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > that mean? Many beautiful, adventurous, romantic, sci-tech > > > > > > possibilities! > > > > > > > > But when my 3 yr old son took a pillow, sat on it, started > > > playing > > > > a > > > > > > > > version of the "Start Wars" and said the same utterance "My > > > pillow > > > > is > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > spaceship"-- it wasn't a metaphor. Just an object (pivot - a > > > > holder) > > > > > to > > > > > > > > play a role in populating the imagined realm. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In play these objects (sticks, knifes...) just hold the place > > of > > > > > images > > > > > > > > and concepts in the imagined realm -- without providing any > > > meaning > > > > > > > "ABOUT" > > > > > > > > these imagined things (horses, bridges, spaceships). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Carrier" is not bad -- but can be confused with metaphor. > > > > > > > > "Pivot" is very neutral and very descriptive -- the meaning > is > > > > > "hinged" > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > the object. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > ____________________________________ > > > > > > > > Ana Marjanovic-Shane > > > > > > > > Deputy Editor-in-Chief, Dialogic Pedagogy Journal > > > > > > > > Associate Professor of Education > > > > > > > > Chestnut Hill College > > > > > > > > Emails: anamshane@gmail.com > > > > > > > > shaneam@chc.edu > > > > > > > > Phone: 267-334-2905 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 8, 2013, at 10:27 AM, Beth Ferholt < > bferholt@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Monica and I are discussing the horse/stick -- in Swedish > the > > > > stick > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > carrier, in English a pivot, and which do people think is a > > > > better > > > > > > > > > translation?? > > > > > > > > > (There is a word for Pivot in Swedish but still Carrier was > > > > chosen > > > > > > -- ) > > > > > > > > > THank you for the help, > > > > > > > > > Beth > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Beth Ferholt > > > > > > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > > > > > > School of Education > > > > > > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > > > > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > > > > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > > > > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > > > > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > > > _____ > > > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Beth Ferholt > > > > > Assistant Professor > > > > > School of Education > > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York > > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue > > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889 > > > > > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu > > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205 > > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816 > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > > _____ > > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut > > > > __________________________________________ > > > > _____ > > > > xmca mailing list > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > __________________________________________ > > > _____ > > > xmca mailing list > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut > > __________________________________________ > > _____ > > xmca mailing list > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca