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Yrjo Engestrom has an article in our newletter files from the 1980's in which he discusses Stanislavski and Vygotsky, I believe. It should be obtainable using google at lchc.ucsd.edu. mike On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 12:19 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > Sorry Robert, in the midst of everything I missed this message. > Short answer is that I don't know (and my partner, Vonney always says that > I should shut up at that point), but Stanislavsky, Eisenstein and company > were, I understand, friends of Vygotsky's from his student days, but others > will have to speak on that topic. I am definitively *not *a historian. In > any case, I am seeing if I can strike up a conversation with an expert on > that period of Russian drama, who is outside of psychology, to get to the > bottom of it all. > > Andy > > Robert Lake wrote: > >> Andy, >> I appreciate your trace of the history of this word and wonder if >> "category" in the theatrical sense might also be connected to LSV, and >> Stanislavsky's notion of genre ? >> /Robert L. >> / >> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net<mailto: >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: >> >> I should report on the outcome of my investigations of this >> question. Nikolai Veresov and I have met and agreed only that we >> cannot agree, so, so far as I know he retains his position, but I >> will leave it Nikolai to say what that is. I cannot speak for him. >> >> However, I have verified that the word /kategoria/, was translated >> from Greek via Latin into English as "predicament" and from 1580, >> meant "predicament" in the sense of a "problematic situation" and >> whatismore "kategoria" is used to this day in Rhetoric and in a >> broadly similar sense, but only in highly specialist discourses. >> Not "category," just "kategoria." There is some evidence also that >> kategoria is used in the theory of theatre in a similar sense to >> this day. So, I have to give some plausibility to the claim that >> the word had such a sense in Vygotsky's circle of theatrical >> friends in Moscow before he went into psychology, but I cannot >> document it from that time. "Predicement" remains the technical >> word in theatre for the situation from which a plot develops, the >> source of the basic tension which drives the story. I have long >> been of the view, on the basis of reading Volume 5 of the LSV CW, >> that the "social situation of development" can be characterised in >> Vygotsky's view, as a "predicament." But I made the connection >> with a Marxist view of history, not the theory of theatre. >> >> On Catharsis, I have found the source of this concept in Freud and >> an article by Freud is attached. It is called "working through" in >> this article. Interesting. It makes sense. >> >> Thank you Anton, and Huw for your insights, >> Andy >> >> Andy Blunden wrote: >> >> Thank you Huw. Very encrouaging. "Resolution" seems to capture >> a lot of it. >> >> I have consulted the OED On-line for "*category*" and found >> nothing surprising about its meaning, as used by Aristotle and >> Kant and in mathematics, more or less meaning "class" but >> extendable to abstract concepts. But what OED did tell me, >> which adds yet another intriguing thread to the puzzle, is >> that its Latin roots mean "predicament," and in olden days, >> "category" used to be translated as "predicament." >> >> Now "predicament" here is related to "predicate" as in subject >> and predicate, a key metaphysical distinction for Aristotle >> and dialectics generally, but it forces me to reflect on the >> relation of "predicament" - and therefore "category" - to >> "situation", as in "social situation of development," which I >> have always said, based on how Vygotsky uses the term, should >> be understood as a "predicament," but in the common usage of >> this word as a situation or trap, from which one must make a >> development in order to escape. >> >> *Catharsis*, according to OED is the Greek word meaning >> "cleansing" or "purging," which is of course what is commonly >> understood by the word. With reference to Aristotle is means >> "the purification of the emotions by vicarious experience." >> Vicarious!? The Freudian usage you referred to (thank you), >> Huw, is "The process of relieving an abnormal excitement by >> re-establishing the association of the emotion with the memory >> or idea of the event which was the first cause of it, and of >> eliminating it by abreaction." This sounds very much like how >> I have understood Vygotsky to be using the term!! >> >> >> All that is fine. A true detective story, as Anton says! But >> what is the Russian word which is a unity of these disparate >> concepts??!! >> >> >> :) >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> Huw Lloyd wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9 June 2011 08:24, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote: >> >> I have been watching Nikolai Veresov's videos on vimeo. >> I refer to >> No. 2 in particular: >> http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/**videos/10226589<http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589> >> In this talk, Nikolai is explaining his view of the >> development of >> Vygotsky's theory of the development of the high mental >> functions >> through the appropriation of social functions, and in >> doing so, he >> appears to be mistaking the English word "category" for the >> English word "catharsis." >> >> >> I think that there is an issue with the English (Freudian) >> use of "catharsis" that refers to expression without >> genuine influence, which a) I don't think is cathartic and >> b) not what was intended in psychology of art, i.e. >> achieving, or identifying with, a genuine change (or >> resolution), even if only a resolution of a staged >> performance (identification), or some other art. >> >> This notion of "real" catharsis then becomes more related >> to the notion of category. >> >> In my studies and thinking I have been happy with >> Nikolai's use of the term category and it's relation to >> stage. With respect to plan/plane correspondences there >> are several overlapping aspects, which seem to be quite >> precisely captured by this otherwise ambiguous term (joint >> context, intention and topological representation). >> >> The dramatic conflict (category) has correspondence with >> (distributed) self-organisation. The social participation >> of emotionally led behaviour leads to structured forms of >> participation, e.g. acquiring new coordinating structures >> in the process of achieving one's goals. >> >> Huw >> >> >> >> -- ------------------------------**------------------------------* >> *------------ >> *Andy Blunden* >> Joint Editor MCA: >> http://www.informaworld.com/**smpp/title~db=all~content=**g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744> >> <http://www.informaworld.com/**smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=** >> g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744> >> > >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/* >> *> >> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857> >> <http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857> >> > >> MIA: http://www.marxists.org >> >> ______________________________**____________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> *Robert Lake Ed.D. >> *Assistant Professor >> Social Foundations of Education >> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading >> Georgia Southern University >> P. O. Box 8144 >> Phone: (912) 478-5125 >> Fax: (912) 478-5382 >> Statesboro, GA 30460 >> >> /Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its >> midwife./ >> /-/John Dewey. >> >> >> > -- > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > ------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Joint Editor MCA: http://www.informaworld.com/**smpp/title~db=all~content= > **g932564744<http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title%7Edb=all%7Econtent=g932564744> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857> > MIA: http://www.marxists.org > > ______________________________**____________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca