RE: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD

[Elizabeth Fein <nickrenz@uchicago.edu>]

David - that is such a good point. And I think the development 
of that binary is reinforced by the kind of opportunities for 
social learning provided to those who can "pass" as non-
stigmatized versus those who cannot. The way individuals in 
late modern societies have to earn nearly all social roles by 
being preferentially chosen (as friends, coworkers, romantic 
partners, et cetera), I think, rapidly increases that gap, as 
those that need experience most are those least likely to win 
it. 

Elizabeth

>My son is high-functioning autistic (has been diagnosed and 
is being
>treated/educated under that label), and my father had 
processing
>difficulties that made it impossible for him to hold a 
responsive,
>turn-taking conversation. Watching my father, who was a  
successful
>innovator in visual motor training for kids, and myself, who 
also has
>processing difficulties, negotiate our social worlds helps me 
understand
>how the autism continuum gets socially constructed and 
culturally
>reified as a binary: a disability that one either does, or 
does not
>have. Social sanctions for autistic behavior are severe. One 
loses many
>social opportunities. As a result those who are closer to 
society's
>current demarcation point work very hard to simulate 
normative
>functioning, creating a fairly wide gap in the behavioral 
spectrum
>between those who "are" and those who "are not" disabled. My 
son's
>degree of autism precludes him from participating effectively 
in
>self-disguise. Presumably, over sociocultural history, 
society's
>demarcation point can shift, placing fewer or greater numbers 
of
>individuals into the disabled category. But my guess is that 
the recent
>uptick in autism diagnosis is too abrupt to be accounted for 
entirely in
>sociohistorical terms. I think something biological is going 
on. 
>David
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>On Behalf Of Deborah Rockstroh
>Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2012 6:15 AM
>To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
>Subject: RE: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD
>
>Elizabeth, biological/genetic/neuroscientific arguments aside 
(which are
>way out of my field, but more than likely quite critical to a 
full
>discussion of this topic), I feel sure there are a minimum of 
two
>(academic) arguments that can be framed from the cultural-
historical
>perspective to support the suggestion that 
social/cultural/historical
>conditions *might be* contributing towards the *rise* of 
autistic
>spectrum disorders: 
>1) the concept that development does not occur in a vacuum - 
widely
>understood as interaction of nature and nurture (including 
the role of
>learning as leading development); and
>2) the notion that those who present the 'symptoms' of being
>'disordered' is itself a construct of a particular culture in 
context,
>that is (with some
>imagination) in other times and places perhaps such traits 
may have had
>value to a particular group, but in western society, these 
traits become
>redundant.
>
>My understanding of autism is limited, but these points 
describe my
>understanding about ADHD/ADD, which I've spent an extensive 
amount of
>time studying.
>Cheers,
>Deborah
>
>
>Deborah Rockstroh
>Southern Cross University 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>On Behalf Of Peter Smagorinsky
>Sent: Sunday, 8 April 2012 5:28 AM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: RE: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD
>
>Good article, Martin--thanks for sharing. The author does a 
nice job of
>noting the tension between "faddish" hyperdiagnosis and real 
attention
>to people's differential makeups. 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>On Behalf Of Martin Packer
>Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 2:40 PM
>To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD
>
><http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/08/sunday-review/the-autism-
wars.html?_r
>=1&p
>artner=rss&emc=rss>
>
>On Apr 7, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
>
>> Elizabeth, I'd say it's possible, but a long way from being 
>> documented. p
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>> On Behalf Of Elizabeth Fein
>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 1:09 PM
>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> Subject: [xmca] Aspergers/ASD
>> 
>> This seems like a great time to introduce myself to the 
list, where I 
>> have been lurking for a while. I actually began looking 
into CHAT (at 
>> Greg's encouragement, after a paper I gave on the subject) 
as a way of
>
>> understanding how social/cultural/historical conditions 
might be 
>> contributing to the rise of autism spectrum conditions. 
Peter, I am 
>> looking forward to reading your articles. And I'll put my 
question out
>
>> there, as I am very curious to hear the responses of this
>> group: Do you think there is any possibility that 
contemporary 
>> conditions
>might be contributing to the rise in *actual cases* of autism 
spectrum
>disorder (not just their detection). (I'm thinking in 
particular of
>factors such as the individualization of society, the need to 
adhere to
>social norms that are less explicit/structured and more based 
on
>flexibility in order to win and maintain a social place, and 
the
>increased role of mimetic media technology as a means of 
socialization).
>So,for example, the two observations David made (that people 
may be
>losing opportunities to learn the art of social reasoning at 
the same
>time that there is a heightened demand for facility with 
decentered
>discourses) might be causing more people not only to be 
DIAGNOSED, but
>also to DEVELOP in a way that comes off as socially awkward 
and
>excessively "rote". 
>> 
>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> Elizabeth Fein, MA
>> Ph.D. Candidate, University of Chicago Department of 
Comparative Human
>
>> Development Psychology Fellow, SociAbility
>> (773)860-7275
>> 
>> 
>> ---- Original message ----
>>> Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 16:33:36 +0000
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu (on behalf of Peter
>> Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>)
>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" 
<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>> 
>>> Greg, I'm puzzled by your autism observation. The increase 
in
>> autism spectrum conditions (and by calling it a disorder, 
you buy into
>
>> the deficit view of mental health difference) is generally 
attributed 
>> to better diagnostic efforts in light of continued research 
into 
>> mental health generally, including autism. I say this as 
someone on 
>> the spectrum (Asperger's syndrome, which runs in my 
family). I've had 
>> one paper published on this topic and have a couple more in 
press and 
>> a few more in the conceptual stage (awaiting time to write 
them). I'd 
>> be happy to share with others any of the following, if you 
write me 
>> off-list. I was supposed to give one at ISCAR but couldn't 
make the 
>> trip; I'll give another at AERA next weekend. p
>>> 
>>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (2011). Confessions of a mad
>> professor: An autoethnographic consideration of 
neuroatypicality,
>extranormativity, and education. Teachers College Record, 
113,
>1701-1732.
>>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (in press). Vygotsky, "defectology," 
>> and the inclusion of people of difference in the broader 
cultural
>stream.
>Journal of Language and Literacy Education.
>>> 	Smagorinsky, P. (in press). "Every individual has his
>> own insanity": Applying Vygotsky's work on defectology to 
the question
>
>> of mental health as an issue of inclusion. Learning, 
Culture and 
>> Social Interaction
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Greg Thompson
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2012 11:53 AM
>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>>> 
>>> Larry,
>>> and perhaps the incredibly high rates of "Autism Spectrum
>> Disorder"
>>> diagnosis in the U.S. is a sign of the times?
>>> [At the very least, it should be noted that it is a 
wonderful
>> fit for the particular here and now that we inhabit (by 
ourselves?)].
>>> -greg
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 4:41 PM, Larry Purss
>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Thanks for the 2 versions of this response by Piaget.
>>>> 
>>>> I was interested in Piaget's comments on egocentrism 
[page
>> 3] when he
>>>> was talking about unconscious preferential focusing and a
>> lack of
>>>> differentiation of viewponts.  He gives the example of 
the
>> beginning
>>>> instructor who soon discovers that his first lectures 
were 
>>>> incomprehensible because he was *talking to himself*, so 
to
>> say,
>>>> mindful only of his own point of view. The second example
>> Piaget gives
>>>> is developing the capacity to place oneself in the shoes 
of
>> the other
>>>> [taking the point of view of one's partner] in order to
>> convince the other *on his own ground*.
>>>> 
>>>> As I read Piaget's explanation of egocentrism [and its
>> continuing
>>>> expression throughout the lifespan] I was wondering if 
this
>> ability
>>>> [achievement?] to decenter and shift perspectives can be
>> viewed as an
>>>> *art* form or a *skill* that requires certain dialogical
>> *ways* of
>>>> expression.
>>>> This leads to further wondering if the *distortions* in 
our
>> current
>>>> housing arrangements; for example how we are becoming 
more 
>>>> *self*-contained and living *solo* [50% of all residences
>> in New York
>>>> city are occupied by a single occupant] may be  having 
the
>> unintended
>>>> consequence that we may be loosing the *art* form of
>> *social* reasoning.
>>>> 
>>>> I guess a counter argument could be made that living 
alone
>> requires
>>>> more
>>>> *skill* in decentering as we are constantly thrown into
>> novel
>>>> discursive situations.
>>>> 
>>>> Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> Larry
>>>> 
>>>> On Fri, Apr 6, 2012 at 2:33 PM, David Kellogg 
>>>> <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mike:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Actually, the version up on the Marxists Internet 
Archive
>> is missing
>>>>> a page and Parsons' translation, although good, is not
>> complete in places.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here's a version we did, alongside the standard
>> translation. The
>>>>> boxes
>>>> are
>>>>> part of a discussion we had in our group when we were
>> doing T&S in
>>>> Korean.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I didn't answer your last on Basov, mostly because I was
>> trying to
>>>>> find some Basov beyod what was published in the JREEP
>> myself. 
>>>>> Besides that,
>>>> the
>>>>> only thing I know about Basov is the (generally very
>> favorable)
>>>> references
>>>>> in HDHMF.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What surprises me is that both Basov and Vygotsky are
>> indebted to
>>>> Volkelt,
>>>>> of all people, for the distinction between analysis into
>> units and
>>>> analysis
>>>>> into elements! And where exactly did Vygotsky get the
>> idea that
>>>>> behavior evolves just as organs do, if not from Lorenz
>> and
>>>>> Tinbergen? It might be from Jennings, but in Jennings
>> it's not
>>>>> exactly behavior itself that evolves; only the
>> affordances of an organism's internal organs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --- On Fri, 4/6/12, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> 
wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Piaget in Vygotsky 1962
>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture,Activity" 
>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>> Date: Friday, April 6, 2012, 10:43 AM
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone have a copy of Piaget's piece on Thought and
>> Language
>>>>> from 1962?
>>>>> mike
>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>> _____
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>>>>> 
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of 
Comparative 
>>> Human Cognition Department of
>> Communication University of California, San Diego 
>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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