RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

[Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>]

Thank you, Anton,

I had not posted there too, because my Russian is not good for more complex utterances (of course, even English is not so wonderful). I will try there even in English therefore, like here, as you suggest that there is no problem. Then later, if we have some progress, I can report here some progress to our XMCA friends too, if there would be collective interest and agreement. I think "semiotic analysis" is related to our former question about "textual analysis" in understand the own Vygotsky's and other Soviet/Russian psychologists historical works... Do you remember? 

Best.

Achilles.




> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:34:55 -0800
> From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> 
> Why don't you try to ask the guys @ psyhistorik -- 
> http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/profile ? 
> Perhaps somebody will be able to answer your question there ...
> 
> AY
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:41:33 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> 
> 
> Thank you, Mike.
> Achilles.
> 
> > Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:01 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > CC: borlogic@yahoo.com
> > 
> > Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets see what our
> > native
> > Russian speakers can tell us.
> > mike
> > 
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > Hi, XMCA,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there was an
> > > interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the analysis:
> > > "Семический
> > > анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и смыслового
> > > строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the only
> > > adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe]  structure [or
> > > construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in my Portuguese
> > > version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie" translation as
> > > "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with
> > > "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was not
> > > "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has
> > > "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe" in
> > > Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika" and
> > > "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know
> > > about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics",
> > > "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we better translate
> > > "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological means
> > > did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at that
> > > times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term
> > > "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the study of the
> > > systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction" [stroenie] of
> > > consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this matter that in find
> > > in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935). Семический
> > > анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований
> > > харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I &
> > > Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?) meanings,
> > > adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group. ---> but
> > > this was not published... Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed that
> > > "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in
> > > empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic
> > > analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in a
> > > "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an adequate
> > > translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept...
> > > "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) - this
> > > was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your help, one more time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição num vídeo. Veja
> > > aqui!
> > >
> > > http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas - Imagem Dinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> > >
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> > >
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