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Just as a side thought, your image of the feet twitching when watching a tennis match reminded me of this video http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/vs_ramachandran_the_neurons_that_shaped_civilization.html Wagner Luiz Schmit Brazil 2012/8/15 Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> > ** > As I see it Mike, the reason that a set-up which facilitates the subject > imaginatively putting themselves into the object, leads to quicker solution > of the problem because it mobilises the highly developed sense we have of > our own body. Although wrong about much else, I think Lakoff was right > about the central place of spatial and other visceral metaphors lying at > the root of our ability to understand things, including concept formation > and the formation of language. Likewise, I think the whole range of social > feelings we have - shame, fear of disapproval, desire for recognition, > respect for norms of behaviour, etc., as well as knowledge of the various > objects which populate our social world, key in our understanding of > concepts which have an essentially social existence. Just as my feet and > shoulders twitch when I watch a tennis match, I think similar but deeper > processes are going on when I recognise or think about things which are > conceptualised in a particular way in the social environment I am in. If > this is the kind of thing you have in mind, then I believe I understand > you. The same considerations also engage the concepts of abstract and > concrete, but you seemed to be hinting at a more immediate connection which > at the moment is just escaping me. > > Perhaps you could explain? > > Andy > > mike cole wrote: > > Thanks for posting the link to the paper, Andy. > > I believe that a starting point is to ask the following question(s): > > 1. What is it that accounts for the increase in time to carry out a > mental rotation for the plain > conglomeration of blocks? > > 2. Whatever the process is, why is it that the amount of rotation is > irrelevant if the figure has > a schematic face/head on it in a place where it appears person-like? > > Maybe all the concrete is between my ears. > mike > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/ap81v3n2.PDF p.16 >> >> Mike, I also, at first had the same problem with motorscooter indicator, >> and I used a different but similar tactic to overcome it. Also, as a civil >> engineer I learnt that it was essential to imagine yourself as the building >> in order to nknow where the stresses would be and effectively design it, >> and most difficult problems, up to the point of calculations could be >> solved this way. >> >> But ... :) ... I can't see what this has to do with abstract and >> concrete. Can you explain? >> >> Andy >> >> mike cole wrote: >> >>> A wonderful paper by Yutaka Sayeki (with two key figures reversed, but >>> it is obvious where the mistake was made when you read it) has an example >>> of what I take to be almost a "measure" of rising to the concrete (see also >>> Davydov's ideas on the topic). >>> >>> Its part of a special issue of the newsletter. Accessible to anyone at >>> lchc.ucsd.edu <http://lchc.ucsd.edu> >>> >>> * >>> >>> Volume 3, Number 2 April 1981 >>> >>> * >>> >>> AZUMA, Hiroshi: /A Note on Cross-Cultural Study/ >>> >>> INAGAKI, Kayoko: /Facilitation of Knowledge Integration through / >>> >>> /Classroom Discussion/ >>> >>> KASHIWAGI, Keiko: /Note on the Socialization Processes in Japan/ >>> >>> HATANO, Giyoo, KUHARA, Keiko, and AKIYAMA, Michael: /Kanji Help / >>> >>> /Readers of Japanese Infer the Meaning of Unfamiliar Words/ >>> >>> SAITO, Hirofumi/: Toward Comparative Studies in Reading Kanji and / >>> >>> /Kana/ >>> >>> SAYEKI, Yutaka: /"Body Analogy" and the Cognition of Rotated Figures/ >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 5:24 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com<mailto: >>> huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> On 15 August 2012 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net >>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: >>> >>> > Well, these issues are not going to be solved in 5 minutes, Huw. >>> Analog >>> > and digital belong to a completely different frame than the >>> concepts of >>> > abstract/concrete and general/universal which I think Greg asked >>> about >>> > initially. >>> > >>> >>> Analog was an elaboration. This point is not necessary to resolve >>> "universal" in the Lenin quote. >>> >>> Huw >>> >>> >>> > >>> > Let me be brief then. Ilyenkov famously makes the point that >>> (exchange) >>> > value is an ideal, but it is also real. The market implements a >>> process of >>> > abstracting the value of commodities but it is the very >>> concreteness of the >>> > market which makes that process possible. >>> >>> Democracy is an ideal which really motivates millions of people and >>> > underpins constitutional governments. >>> > >>> >>> > Universal suffrage allows that insane people, criminals and >>> children do >>> > not vote. And what is more, when the President is elected, only >>> the votes >>> > of 51% count. (There are of course plenty of "Ah, but ..."s >>> about this, but >>> > this is what is meant by the difference between the general and the >>> > universal.) >>> > >>> > http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/** >>> > >>> sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b< >>> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/sl/slsubjec.htm#SL163n1b >>> > >>> > >>> > Andy >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________ >>> _____ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *Andy Blunden* >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ >> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts >> >> __________________________________________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> > > > -- > ------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts > > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca