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On 19 April 2011 09:53, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > Huw, I think by dissolving all distinctions you also dissolve all meaning, > and the result is meaningless. What on earth do *you* mean by "epistemology" > if "any organism" has an epistemology? What on earth does "physical" mean to > *you* if it does not mean anything distinct from "mental". > They're synonymous, or rather different aspects of a process that we conventionally label as the slow part and the quick part. > Makes great bar-room chatter, but no science. > > Does the bar have a thermostat? Preferably an old clunky, non-electric one so that we can observe its material workings. Huw > Andy > > Huw Lloyd wrote: > >> >> >> On 19 April 2011 09:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto: >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: >> >> You miss my point, Huw in the 1st paragraph. Having "Activity" as >> a fundamental concept is the only way I know to *avoid* the >> mental/physical dichotomy. But I wouldn't go so far as to try to >> avoid the "distinction." Would you? >> >> >> Adopting the words of Beer, I'd dissolve the distinction. :) >> >> I've been thinking about it, though I don't think that cybernetics entails >> the 'fundamental' concept of activity and yet meets all the conceptual needs >> I've had for it to date. >> >> >> You mention: "subject/organism/host of the epistemology". Are you >> suggesting that something other than a human being can have an >> epistemology? >> >> >> You can point to any organism and say it knows something. To know that >> you know is just another kind of knowing or affirmation. In the sense of >> models and Godel. >> >> Huw >> >> Andy >> >> Huw Lloyd wrote: >> >> >> >> On 19 April 2011 02:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net >> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote: >> >> Huw, I think any scientific theory should aspire to be >> philosophically rigorous. Philosophial rigour though is not >> something that depends on results as "scientific" rigour >> does. For >> example, is we use the concept of "activity" in our scientific >> work as a relation between the mental and the physical for >> example, then we need to be aware that this introduces a >> dichotomy >> which is ultimately unsustainable. On the other hand, it is >> almost >> impossible to talk about, let alone explain, Activity without >> referring to "states of mind" and so on. This is the difficult >> distinction between communicative action and concepts. >> >> >> The mental/physical distinction looks like a dead-end to me >> beyond the sphere of social discourse, though I understand >> your gist here to be about coherence. Yes, I'd only offer >> mild surprise that you'd willingly employ an incoherent >> theory. The distinction between the "-graphy" aspects of >> science and the "-ology" may be apt. >> >> On concepts: It is true that a concept **can** be conceived of >> within a matrix of similarity and differences, but I think >> that is >> a view which really misses what a concept is and fails to >> capture >> the full breadth of meaning of the word. It has the effect of >> replacing the study of a concept with the study of "features" >> ultimately leading to an arbitrary decision on what counts >> as an >> "irreducible" "chunk" or "feature". I think there is a >> difference >> between problems of recognition or categorisation, on one hand, >> and conceptulisation on the other. Concepts actually always >> have >> fuzzy boundaries, and focus on boundary problems often >> misses the >> essence. >> >> >> Yes. Most definitely. Although these fuzzy boundaries exist >> (or are far greater in proliferation) when the >> subject/organism/host of the epistemology entailing the >> concepts is considered as an open system rather than a closed >> system. I agree about the semiotic aspects, although I fear >> if it is insisted that this aspect part of the definition of a >> concept (rather than part of it's generation), you will create >> more confusion and disagreement in your wake, especially in >> the positivist camp. >> >> >> The only other pithy point I have to make about the >> commonalities & differences view of concepts right now is that >> you can cover a lot of ground with a few mirrors. The >> uniqueness and variety of our minds and behaviour is also a >> function of the uniqueness and variety in the world, sometimes >> this variety and fuzziness may simply be a reflection of it, >> not something intrinsic to our own epistemology. >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________ >> _____ >> xmca mailing list >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> >> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca >> >> >> > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Joint Editor MCA: > http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744 > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857 > MIA: http://www.marxists.org > > __________________________________________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca > __________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca